HomeMy WebLinkAbout01.17.12 Council Minutes COUNCIL MINUTES
REGULAR
January 17, 2012
1. CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order by Mayor Larson at 7:00 p.m.
2. PLEDGE OFALLEGIANCE
Mayor Larson led the audience and Council in the Pledge of Allegiance.
3. ROLL CALL
Members Present: Larson,Bartholomay,Donnelly, Fogarty,May
Members Absent: None
Also Present: Soren Mattick, City Attorney;Kevin Schorzman, City Engineer;
Teresa Walters,Finance Director;Randy Distad,Parks and
Recreation Director;Brenda Wendlandt,Human Resources
Director; Cynthia Muller,Executive Assistant
Audience: Tim Thompson,Dave&Sue Gerardy, Colin Garvey,Doug Bonar,
Dave Quehl
4. APPROVE AGENDA
Councilmember Bartholomay pulled item 7j)Bills for comment. Councilmember May
pulled item 7d)Legal Newspaper for comment.
MOTION by Fogarty, second by May to approve the Agenda. APIF,MOTION
CARRIED.
5. ANNOUNCEMENTS
6. CITIZEN COMMENTS
7. CONSENT AGENDA
MOTION by Fogarty, second by May to approve the Consent Agenda as follows:
a) Approved Council Minutes(1/3/12 Regular)(1/9/12 Special)(1/9/12 Workshop)
b) Accepted Resignation Parks and Recreation Commission-Administration
c) Approved Appointments to Boards and Commissions-Administration
d) Approved Farmington Independent as Legal Newspaper-Administration
e) Received Information 2011 4th Quarter Building Permit Report—Building
Inspections
f) Approved School and Conference—Finance and Administration
g) Approved School and Conference—Municipal Services
h) Received 2011 Annual Report—Fire Department
i) Approved VEBA Welfare Benefit Plans Trust Agreement—Human Resources
j) Approved Bills
APIF,MOTION CARRIED.
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7d) Approve Legal Newspaper-Administration
Councilmember May commented this has been brought up the last couple years to
make sure we are fairly publicizing the ability for both papers that serve our area
to bid for legal notices. She thanked ThisWeek newspaper for providing a bid.
She would like the Farmington Independent to continue as the legal newspaper,
but both papers do serve the community quite well. It was good to see both
having the opportunity for the business this year.
7j) Approve Bills
Councilmember Bartholomay commented on mileage and asked that staff use
City vehicles whenever possible. He also asked about the subscription to the
Farmington Independent. Staff explained those are for various City facilities.
Councilmember Bartholomay asked about the bill for T-mobile as he recalled we
were using Sprint. Staff explained it is for a GPS card for surveying equipment as
the Sprint card did not work. Councilmember Bartholomay asked about the bill
pertaining to the Seed property. Staff explained that is for an independent
appraisal that was done for a future Council discussion and it will be reimbursed
by the developer. Councilmember Bartholomay asked about the bill for Metro
Dining Cards. Staff explained they are sold by the Rambling River Center has a
fundraiser for the renovation project. Councilmember Bartholomay asked about
various Visa charges which staff explained.
8. PUBLIC HEARINGS
9. AWARD OF CONTRACT
10. PETITIONS,REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
a) Receive Public Comment on Acquisition of 420 Elm Street for Downtown
Liquor Store—Parks and Recreation
Mayor Larson stated this will not be a discussion on the philosophy of whether we
should or should not be in the liquor business. We want to hear comments on
purchasing this site for a future downtown liquor store. The decision about being
in the liquor business has been made. We want public comment from the
neighbors.
Parks and Recreation Director Distad stated a letter was sent to property owners
within 350 ft.of 420 Elm Street notifying them of possible acquisition of this
property for a downtown liquor store. The letter was to provide property owners
an opportunity to provide comment on this proposal. Some comments were
received prior to the meeting. Staff provided drawings of what the property
would look like with renovations.
Mr. Tim Thompson, 816 7th Street,thanked Councilmember May for responding
to his e-mail. As for the rest of Council, he had no idea why they couldn't
respond to a simple question,but apparently it is not feasibly done around here.
Council has made up their mind to stay in the liquor business and trying to move
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somewhere they believe would be more profitable for the City. But in turn,you
are removing a taxable business from the City tax rolls. So what is the plan to
pick up the difference on that taxable property? It is about$2800/year in taxes to
the City and fiscal disparities amounts to $3700- $3800. So where will you pick
up the difference? Why not use a facility we already have? Have you looked at
that? Yes, it is on a higher traffic road,but why are we spending money we do
not have when he sat through every budget meeting and Council argued for six
months about whether you had bonding money to do it and you continue to move
ahead without any money. When will the difference be picked up for the taxes we
are losing by taking this property off the tax rolls? Mayor Larson replied that
information will come out,but right now it is not public. This is just an option.
That is why we are getting public comment. Mr.Thompson noted Mayor Larson
said we are staying in the liquor business before anyone said anything. So
apparently you already have your mind made up this is where you will go. Mayor
Larson replied no. Mr.Thompson asked why did he not receive a response to his
e-mail? Why did no one respond except for Councilmember May and City
Administrator McKnight? Are you afraid of citizen comments? Are you afraid of
public input? Councilmember Fogarty stated she is the one who asked for public
input. Mr.Thompson said there is no response sent when someone provides
input. You take the input from the people you want to. He was trying to afford
living in the town he wants to raise his children. If that takes battling to keep
taxes in the forefront,he will do it. Whether it is every other week,he will do it.
You need to learn to take the input rather than blowing people off. If this is your
option,then I would like to see other options. Mayor Larson stated this is the first
one and we want to get public comment on this first. Mr.Thompson stated if this
is your first option,then where is the plan for people to study to find out where
you will pick up the tax difference. Mayor Larson stated that information will
come. Mr.Thompson asked before or after you decide you want to put it there?
Mayor Larson replied before;we are not voting on this tonight,we are taking
public comment. Mr.Thompson stated it has to be done so people have the time
to do the research. Councilmember Bartholomay noted he forwarded Mr.
Thompson's e-mail to City Administrator McKnight and appreciated the
information Mr. Thompson sent. Mr.Thompson stated if you all have individual
e-mails why forward it to the City Administrator? Why can't you respond? You
are an elected official by the people of this town. Why can't you respond?
Councilmember Bartholomay stated he did not respond because he wanted to
obtain more information. Mr.Thompson agreed,but if we are asking questions
and you don't have information,how are you going to get input from the people if
the people don't have the proper information? This is an option,but if you have
no information to go along with your option, your option is worthless. If you are
giving an option without any benefits, you will be in trouble. Mr.Thompson
would like to know when those options will be available. Mayor Larson asked
when more information will be released. Parks and Recreation Director Distad
stated tonight we are gathering questions and comments and we will compile
them. If we can answer the questions we will. At the same time there has been
no decision made. When it comes back to the Council for further discussion and
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possibly a decision is when that information will be available to the public. Mr.
Thompson assumed that would have to be prior to the lease expiration of the
existing liquor store. Staff stated the existing lease expires August 1,2012. Mr.
Thompson noted so you will give people a real amount of time to provide input
rather than having executive sessions behind closed doors that no one can come
to. Mayor Larson realized Mr. Thompson is frustrated,but Council is taking
direction from legal counsel on what we can and cannot say and when.
Councilmember Fogarty stated it is not meant to be deceptive. When information
comes out that you are dealing with a public entity, quite often the price increases.
That is why things are done in closed session to make sure that does not happen.
Mr. Thompson understood,but the value is the value. If the value will increase
then it is a fictious value. He sat through a budget workshop where staff said how
to take the actual value of their home. If you are over that,you are overpaying.
So why would that information be out of line? Councilmember Fogarty stated we
are not being deceptive. That is why we asked for public comment. We are not
hiding anything and we want input. Mr.Thompson stated it sure seems like it and
then when you don't get a response to questions you ask, it seems more deceptive.
You wonder why people get frustrated when you don't give answers. He hoped
Council gives all the information to the people. Councilmember Bartholomay
apologized for not getting back to Mr.Thompson. Parks and Recreation Director
Distad stated this would be a revenue bond and not paid back through property
taxes. It would be paid back through liquor store profits. Mr.Thompson asked
about the length of the bond. Staff stated that has not been decided yet. It would
not be on the taxpayers to pay the bond back. Liquor store profits would be used
to pay the bond. It would not be on the property taxes. Mr.Thompson stated if
you are short in the liquor department,that goes back to the property owners as it
comes out of the general fund which is paid by the property tax owners. Staff
agreed. Mr.Thompson stated apparently it is not profitable now and that is why
you are looking at a second option. Mayor Larson stated we are talking about the
building now.
Councilmember May commented she is not opening the debate about whether we
should be in the liquor business, but how can we make a comment that whether
we stay in the liquor business is not part of the equation,when we are talking
about a$1 million bond, is very short sighted. It certainly does have to be part of
the discussions we have and the public should be open to hearing all of the input
we have. If we are talking about increased sales,we have not seen any data to
support why a move will make a difference. She felt Council owes it to the public
to make sure we are keeping an open mind, collecting all the data, and they hear
all the data and if the public wants to give us input on a location and/or whether
we should be in the business,they should be able to do so. Councilmember
Fogarty stated that is not how this was advertised. Councilmember May stated it
has to be part of the discussion;maybe not tonight,but it has to be part of the
discussion at some point before a decision is made.
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Councilmember Donnelly wanted to explain the revenue part. The bond is not
paid by the taxpayers. Right now we have to pay a lease and the payments on this
building would be less than the lease we are paying now. If we don't make
enough money to pay the lease,the same is true. This is a way to lower that
payment and eventually get rid of it after owning the building for a certain
number of years. We have discussed the philosophy before and we will discuss it
again.
Ms. Sue Gerardy, 501 Oak Street,stated it is a very residential area for a liquor
store. We have a lot of small children in the neighborhood. She did not believe it
would be a good spot for a liquor store. She looked at the agenda packet and
noticed Council is considering another site at Vermillion River Crossing. As far
as the cost,$500,000 is a lot of money,but to buy a 40-year old building and
renovate it and only spend$500,000-$700,000 more to build a brand new
building does not make sense. It is a very residential area and we have a lot of
children. We all know what happens at liquor stores on occasion. You get the
issues and the drunks and we don't want our children exposed to that. They lived
there when Tom Thumb was in that location and it was dangerous. The traffic
was terrible.
Mr. Colin Garvey,22098 Canton Court, stated if you don't want to take a
philosophical point of view, let's take a factual view. About 20 years ago staff
moved the grocery store from one TIF district to another TIF district. Then we
jumped from point A to point B and at one point we had 13 properties that were
off the tax rolls for 20+years. This site alone,there are five businesses. At 195th
Street we built a new Maintenance Facility. He went to a meeting and asked why
do we have to put a Police Station on the corner? Why can't we move it over and
sell that corner? You would have thought I shot the Pope for that comment. We
have a lot next to the Police Station for sale. The building on First Street was to
be sold to pay down the bond debt on the Maintenance Facility; it did not happen.
When City Hall was built,the old City Hall was to be sold to pay down the debt;
it did not happen. He is glad it is used for a senior center because they deserve it.
It beats a park. Everything he brought up was not given to the public to vote on.
HRA funds were used, and he believes illegally. Now the citizens are on the
backside paying off all this debt that has been created. He has been to a lot of
meetings the last 25 years. In the last 5-6 years it has gotten really challenging.
In the 90's he talked to the Mayor about taking away commercial property and
you take away our tax base and our fiscal disparities. You get more fiscal
disparities back,but it is harder on the businesses that are here. The quicker you
realize that,the quicker you can start making better decisions. We had a liquor
store downtown. We didn't decide to move it. Staff and the City moved it. That
is not our fault. You had visibility. The building was paid for. You have got to
stop taking taxable property off the tax roll. We can't afford it. You have sat at
how many budget meetings? You can't even come up with half the money,
$145,000 for seal coating. You can't even assess for it. That tells him all the
slush funds are bankrupt. You can't come up with half that money otherwise you
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can't do seal coating. How can you possibly think of taking another piece of
property off the tax rolls? It doesn't make any sense. There is not economical
sense to this. Our Spruce Street corridor was to be designed years ago and opened
up. That was put on the back burner. When this building was built, one of the
biggest pushes for this site was because the Vermillion River Crossing and Spruce
Street corridor would be opened. If you have to be in the liquor business,you
have a spot on the corner. Save the taxpayers money,put it there, get Spruce
Street opened up, and stay with what you vote on. Let's be consistent. We are
jumping around with the taxpayers' money and it hasn't worked. Can anyone
argue with my facts? Are they inaccurate? Mayor Larson stated we are not going
to argue tonight. You make a lot of sense. Mr.Garvey stated everything he
brought up is factual, so why do we keep doing it? You have to go to your
taxpayers for votes. Everything he brought up,the residents were not allowed to
vote on. Council is supposed to be a government of the people and for the people.
The quicker you realize that,the better off the City of Farmington will be,the
State of Minnesota will be and this whole county, because it is going broke.
Mr. Dave Quehl, 500 Elm Street,asked that Council speak up. First of all,he did
not think the City should be in the liquor business. Secondly, his family has been
in their house for 34 years and it will really be affected by a liquor store. He took
two windows out of the west side of his house because cars would come out of
Tom Thumb and would light up his kitchen. The same thing will happen with a
liquor store. It is a residential area. You have seven homes in that block. It is not
a place for a liquor store. It is residential. You will not keep it a residential area
with a liquor store. You can use another location where a restaurant moved out.
Why not put it there? He doesn't follow City politics,but he hears,why can't we
get businesses in Vermillion River Crossing? Why not put it out there? Mayor
Larson stated that is one of the options. Mr. Quehl asked where the idea came
from to put a liquor store there? Parks and Recreation Director Distad stated they
did a search of properties and there was some criteria that had to be met including
willing sellers versus the eminent domain process. This property was up for sale.
Mr. Quehl did not think this was a smart move. Mr. Quehl then asked why he has
to show his driver's license to buy a six pack of beer. Staff replied it is store
policy. That way we do not discriminate against anyone. We treat everyone the
same. Mr. Quehl stated when he goes to the liquor store in Rosemount they don't
ask for his driver's license and that is where he has been going. He did not
understand why they have to ask him for a driver's license.
Mr. Doug Bonar,20506 Eastview Curve,understood the challenges of property
acquisition. It appears the Council is planning on purchasing a building or
constructing one. The questions are basic. In doing so, is there a plan? Is there a
business plan? Obviously we are speaking about property. Personnel and product
are the other two p's that with all three done well, result in profit. What we have
experienced with a municipal liquor store is poor at best. It doesn't rank well
with our peers; it doesn't rank well within the state of Minnesota. We have some
keen challenges ahead. While the laws changed in the `30's after prohibition and
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the policies of temperance were put in place,the actualities of the municipal
liquor store as a matter of creating a revenue stream to underwrite enterprise
funds came into place. There are several enterprise funds that are in great need.
Does this Council and this administration have a plan,whether it means the
purchase of this property, or the construction of another,that will result in a
dramatic change in an increased profit for municipal liquor operations? If not, are
there other options that will be considered? Councilmember May agreed.
Ms. Julie May, 505 Oak Street,spoke on behalf of a homeowner that received one
of the letters. She and her husband purchased this property and will be living
there soon. One of the reasons they like it is because it is on the historic Oak
Street,which is not conducive to a liquor store being half a block away. She
concurred with other comments as a homeowner that this is not the right location
for a liquor store.
Mayor Larson stated this item will be brought back to the February 6, 2012
Council meeting. He thanked residents for their comments. Mr.Thompson stated
Mayor Larson needed to clarify what he is talking about. He needs to clarify to
the people you are talking liquor store again on February 6, 2012;are you talking
about another location, or other options? Tell people what you are going to
discuss so people can decide whether it is worth their time or not. Not just we are
going to discuss liquor stores on February 6,2012. Mayor Larson asked staff
what will be on the agenda for February 6, 2012. Parks and Recreation Director
Distad stated they will take the public comments received tonight,review them,
and come back on February 6,2012,to discuss whether this property is a location
Council wants to pursue or are there other options you want to talk about. Mayor
Larson stated he and City Administrator McKnight met with Mr. Waltman,the
owner of the current liquor store site, and he did extend some options including
reducing the space,purchasing the building, and extending the lease for as long as
necessary while we decide what to do.
Councilmember Bartholomay felt they should talk about philosophy before
talking about purchasing to get it out there. If the philosophy is not there, it is
pointless to keep going. Councilmember May understood that after this public
comment,there would be a workshop before any other discussion came to a
Council meeting. The Mayor has met with the current landlord and Council needs
a chance to have a good workshop about not only this option, but other options
that have been discussed where other Councilmembers have not heard all the
details. She felt there needs to be another workshop for this topic prior to
anything coming to Council for a vote. That was her understanding from City
Administrator McKnight. City Engineer Schorzman suggested breaking the
topics into two portions. He suggested having a philosophy discussion first
before a philosophy and what to do discussion. Councilmember May felt they go
hand in hand. Revenues and spending go hand in hand so what is the plan? That
is the philosophy;the plan. All she has heard of the plan is that moving to Elm
Street will increase sales. Staff's understanding of the philosophy discussion was
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should the City be in the liquor business or not. Staff will discuss a workshop for
January 23 or January 30,2012 and inform Council of a date.
11. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
12. NEW BUSINESS
13. COUNCIL ROUNDTABLE
Councilmember Donnelly: He appreciated everyone's comments. He was glad to hear
the opinions and Council will continue to listen. This is not a done deal. Council does
not ask for public input on everything. He was not aware of the items Mr. Garvey was
talking about from the past. He thanked everyone for their comments and nothing has
been decided.
Councilmember Fogarty: For anyone that is frustrated because they think they don't
get through to Council,the budget was a perfect example of Council listening and
responding to what we heard. She did not know how anyone could accuse anyone on this
Council of not being open minded and listening;we absolutely do. That is why we asked
for public comment on something where it was not required,but we wanted to hear from
the residents who live in that neighborhood and how it would impact their lives and
homes. She thanked the residents for coming and for sending e-mails. There are many
venues for people to contact Council so we can receive lots of information. The
Community Expo will be held Saturday,January 28,2012, at the Farmington High
School. Residents can find out about businesses and community organizations.
Councilmember Bartholomay: Thanked the residents for expressing their opinion
and concerns. He apologized again to Mr. Thompson for not responding to his e-mail,
but he took it as a question for the City overall. In his opinion he did not think the City
could recoup the tax dollars and did not think it was a good idea to take a taxable
property off the market. He will respond to Mr.Thompson's e-mail.
Councilmember May: Thanked the residents for sharing their comments. She
thanked the Fire Department for the Annual Fire Department meeting. We have a very
young Fire Department and she was amazed with these young people taking the time to
learn the skills to protect us. She thanked them for their service to the community.
City Engineer Schorzman: The FEMA information is on the website. Staff is
continuing to receive phone calls regarding the flood plain and we are successful in
helping residents get the information they need for their lenders. The letter they need is
on the website.
Mayor Larson: Thanked the Fire Department for the invitation to their Annual
Meeting. He congratulated Jeff Albee for being Firefighter of the Year. The Community
Expo is January 28, 2012 at the Farmington High School. There is lots of good
information and fun activities. He encouraged residents to come out to see what
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Farmington has to offer. January 23,2012,there will be a ribbon cutting at the car wash
for a new automatic touch free bay.
14. ADJOURN
MOTION by Fogarty, second by Bartholomay to adjourn at 7:49 p.m. APIF,MOTION
CARRIED.
Respectfully submitted,
Cynthia Muller
Executive Assistant
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