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HomeMy WebLinkAbout04.06.05 Special Council Minutes JOINT CITY COUNCIL/SCHOOL BOARD MEETING MINUTES April 6, 2005 1. CALL TO ORDER Mayor Soderberg called the meeting to order for the Council at 5:30 p.m. Chair McKnight called the meeting to order for the School Board at 5:30 p.m. 2. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE Mayor Soderberg led the audience in the Pledge of Allegiance. 3. ROLL CALL Council Members Present: Soderberg, Fogarty, McKnight, Pritzlaff, Wilson School Board Members Present: McKnight, Davis, Donnelly, Manthey, Weyandt Members Absent: Privette Also Present: Andrea Poehler, City Attorney; David Urbia, City Administrator; Kevin Carroll, Community Development Director; Lee Mann, Public Works Director/City Engineer; Cynthia Muller, Executive Assistant Dr. Brad Meeks, Superintendent; Doug Bonar, Director, Buildings and Grounds; Rosalyn Pautzke, Director, Administrative Services and Operations; Lori Jensen, Administrative Assistant 4. APPROVE AGENDA Mayor Soderberg deleted discussion of the Community Center Update from the agenda and moved High School Site Issues to the beginning, followed by 20Sth StreetlDallas Intersection, and added Schedule Future Meeting Dates. MOTION by Fogarty, second by McKnight to approve the agenda. APIF, MOTION CARRIED. 5. HIGH SCHOOL SITE ISSUES b. Flagstaff Avenue Feasibility Study City Administrator Urbia stated Council considered the school's request for a feasibility study at the April 4, 2005 Council Meeting. Council did not agree with the statement regarding the scope of services. The school requested the feasibility study be done for Flagstaff Avenue from Hwy 50 to 195th Street. If the City wanted the study done from 195th Street to the border, it would be at the City's own volition. With the high school site in the area it will create a new traffic demand. The City feels Flagstaff should be paved from Hwy 50 to the Farmington/Lakeville border. This is an urban reserve area and the 2020 Comp Plan indicates no development. As areas are developed, the developer and the taxpayers pay for many of the costs. The City has to bond for the costs and have a 20% assessment. Developing in areas not scheduled for development creates an unreasonable stress on the taxpayers. If the school wants to build on that site, there are consequences. There will be a lot of traffic and safety concerns due to the type of drivers and the amount. Once the school opens, residents will want the entire road paved. A 20% minimum assessment is needed in order to bond for the improvements. The City does not have that cash on hand. Then the only way to finance this would be to allow development in the entire area, which goes against the Comp Plan. Younger drivers do Council/School Board Minutes April 6, 2005 Page 2 not have the experience of driving on a gravel road. The survey crew is still working in the area to obtain preliminary data. Mayor Soderberg stated it has been made clear from the beginning, in November he asked the school ifthe Christensen site was cast in stone. At that time it was not, but it was fairly close. The school was told Flagstaff would have to be addressed and the City cannot participate financially just because of the enormity of the cost and the inability to assess. Chair McKnight was curious as to what terms he presented that in the informal meeting. The document provided to the school in October indicated paving Flagstaff to 195th Street which is a mile past the property line. Councilmember Fogarty stated that was requested from the school to provide an estimate to 195th Street. Chair McKnight was curious as to how the expectation of paving to the border was communicated. She could not find any documentation. Mayor Soderberg agreed there is probably no documentation on paving to the border, either a written request from the school or from the City. City Administrator Urbia replied staff is reviewing meeting notes regarding what was exchanged. He recalled an estimate was requested for the initial portion and then the City brought to the table that an additional estimate would be done for the entire road. Lakeville also felt the entire road should be paved. Mayor Soderberg recalled the first time it was definitively stated was at the last joint meeting. Chair McKnight stated they have extensive notes from the meeting and nothing was mentioned. There was no conversation regarding Flagstaff. Councilmember Fogarty stated she cannot count the number oftimes she brought it up. To have the school board say this is a surprise blows her away. When the Council made the recommendation to have the property taken out of ag preserve, Dr. Meeks, Mr. Bonar, and Ms. Manthey were in this room. There were three things that are very important that have to be done. Chair McKnight stated when their plan went to the voters and was reviewed by the state, paving to 195th Street, which is a mile past their property line which the school feels is generous, to then say the Council has a desire to have it paved, and she has heard Councilmember Fogarty say it in the last couple months, Chair McKnight never concluded the school would have to come up with another $1.5 million not budgeted for. She thought if the school was paving 1.7 miles, and the City wanted the rest paved, the City would consider paying for it. Councilmember Fogarty stated in that meeting she said 208th Street needs to be addressed in the school's plan, Flagstaffneeds to be paved to the border, and services were to come from Farmington. She did not know how the schoo! could assume the City would be taking care of just one of those items. Dr. Brad Meeks stated the confusion is does one Councilmember bind the whole Councilor is there an official Council action supporting your position. Councilmember Fogarty stated every Councilmember supported what she said. Dr. Meeks replied there was not a motion and a second. Councilmember McKnight recalled his motion stated the 208th Street issue and infrastructure issues. Chair McKnight stated regardless of how we got to this point, we have to figure out how to go forward. Member Weyandt wanted everyone to keep in mind they all have the same clients. It is incumbent upon them to be part ofthe solution and to have duplication of services is poor business and does not show financial responsibility to the community. It is obvious communication needs to improve. What concerns the school is they have been mandated by the people. The special election would have been easier to put on a regular calendar election, but because ofthe timeframe the school finds it imperative to move the project forward. That is what is driving them. The people have asked the school to go forward Council/School Board Minutes April 6, 2005 Page 3 and get the project built. Any money put forward in delaying the project is money taken away from the community. If they have to set up temporary classes in a less than favorable environment we have done a disservice to the kids and been financially irresponsible to the community. He felt strongly they have to collectively come up with answers. He understood the financial position of the City was inherited. For a school to be responsible for 3.2 miles of road seems upsetting to him. If the City says it needs to be done, he would like to know are we sure it needs to be done, what segment of students would be coming to the school that are not going there now. It is primarily a Lakeville district that is built there now and there will be no more growth. Is there anyway the money could be put away for the district when the area is brought into the Comp Plan. The financial responsibility to the community is to say yes, we helped to put this together collectively. The school has not received answers to this. He asked if the City deems the road to be unsafe now. Mayor Soderberg replied it is unsafe. Mr. Weyandt mentioned the accident on Flagstaff in 1999 and if the road was unsafe then, where is the responsibility. Why is it important now that there will be a school that a section of the road becomes incumbent upon the school to improve? Councilmember Fogarty replied a school is a huge difference. While the population has grown in the last six years, it has not grown in that area of the City. The roads heavily traveled need to be addressed quickly. It is the school district's site selection that is making this road's safety go way up on the radar. It is absolutely necessary. We are talking about students flying down the road trying to get to school on time. Mr. Weyandt stated kids living in Lakeville use that road now. Councilmember Fogarty felt that will increase tremendously. Dr. Meeks asked ifthere are traffic counts now, do we know how many school buses go down that road now? Council did not know. Dr. Meeks suggested getting more data. Councilmember Fogarty stated time is the issue for the school. Dr. Meeks stated the school requested a feasibility study and the Council turned it down. Mayor Soderberg replied the feasibility study excluded a portion of the road and that is why it was turned down. A traffic count can be done without a feasibility study, but the school is on a tight timeline. A feasibility study itself will take 3-6 months. Dr. Meeks asked staff what is included in a feasibility study. City Engineer Mann replied they would look at the various infrastructure items that need to be brought out to service the school. They will look at sanitary sewer, as part ofthat analysis that will include the needs of the school and the sizing of the pipe for that type of flow. They will need to look at what makes sense for the City as far as what types of flows will need to go to the sanitary sewer in the future. The City had not planned on bringing a sanitary sewer along that alignment in the Comp Plan at this point. Since it will be brought in, staff needs to do an analysis to see what will be served from that pipe from a City perspective. The Met Council has been doing a study to bring an interceptor plant from the Empire plant out to ElkolNew Market. As part of that there have been discussions between the City, Lakeville and the Met Council as to whether the donut around Cedar Avenue should get served by an interceptor that comes through Farmington perhaps along Flagstaff. There are maps showing a Met Council interceptor going up Flagstaff and whether it goes all the way gravity or partially a lift station needs to be reviewed in the feasibility report. With Flagstaffbeing paved, how the sewer will be laid out and how much needs to be built now, how much is City, Lakeville, or Met Council has to be reviewed as part of the feasibility report. Sanitary sewers built by the City are under the centerline of roadways. Mayor Soderberg asked if staff has a way of determining the size of the sanitary sewer needed without having the Comp Plan for that area updated. City Engineer Mann replied the Comp Plan assumed a certain amount of Council/School Board Minutes April 6, 2005 Page 4 development. Barring any changes, as it is shown as urban reserve, adding this pipe would allow the City some flexibility in the Comp Plan as there would be potentially more capacity for sewer service than originally planned. There was not going to be a pipe coming up from the interceptor just south ofHwy 50 along Flagstaff. As far as the water main, the feasibility report would look at what it takes to bring water out there. Staff would need to look at any adjustments needed based on potential development along the City's borders they were not aware of when the water plan was developed in 1996. As far as Flagstaff Avenue, the feasibility would look at paving, drainage would be a major issue, traffic counts are usually not part of a feasibility report. The state does traffic counts every two years and staff will research this data. To do traffic counts now would not be a huge issue. The major part ofthe feasibility report for Flagstaffwould entail the cost of paving, dealing with drainage, identifying any areas with issues with right-of-way, slopes, easement acquisitions, etc. As far as Flagstaff in its current state, it is maintained in a state typical of many gravel roads. There is a different level of safety on a gravel road versus a paved road. Staff does everything within reason to take care of that road and puts more money into that road than many gravel roads in the area. Councilmember Wilson asked ifit was paved from Hwy 50 to 195th Street, is there information to get an idea of how a school would increase traffic between 195th and the border. City Engineer Mann replied they would have to look at statistics. When there is development in the area there is a basis to make a proj ection. When talking about paving a road without more development, staff would have to review statistics that help with projecting those numbers. Common sense would seem to indicate with a paved road, more people will use it. Dr. Meeks asked if traffic engineers would look at ways to monitor the traffic and slow it down knowing there are schools and high traffic in the area. City Engineer Mann stated as far as what the difference would be with having just the school and no more development, there should be ways to figure that out. It is a concern there will be more students driving that road. As far as achieving traffic calming, there are various levels of improvements that can be done to affect the speed limits on roads. A rural section without curb and gutter would be similar to what it is now, 55 mph. The traffic engineer would look at ways to slow the speed as part ofthe feasibility report. Councilmember Wilson stated whether it is a 1-5-10% increase in traffic, the fact is there is a new large high school in an area where there has not been a lot of traffic. He did not think it is a kids versus road type issue as much as a public safety issue. Whatever the additional cost may be, it is worth that trade-off against any kind of accident. He would be very concerned if any situation were to repeat itself similar to what happened a few years ago, knowing we had the opportunity to improve a road we know will have more traffic. Dr. Meeks asked if the feasibility study would make recommendations as to the type of road that needed to be developed such as number of lanes, turning lanes, etc. Staff replied yes. Dr. Meeks stated they all want safe access to and from school. The school is concerned with where does the school's responsibility end on a project and the City's responsibility begin or continue. That is where they are confused north of 195th. There is a project, but does that become the school's responsibility or the City's. The road right now is a City responsibility. Mayor Soderberg agreed the road is a City responsibility. Even in the future it would be a City responsibility for maintenance. At this point it is a gravel road and that area has been designated urban reserve, and much ofthe land is in ag preserve. No development was scheduled to go out there until 2020. Prior to then the Comp Plan will be updated and staff will be revisiting that. Had the school been a typical Council/School Board Minutes April 6, 2005 Page 5 development coming to the City asking for MUSA and wanting to develop the property the answer would have been no. Council has gone against their own Comp Plan and indicated they want to help the school get this done. There are some things that are just financially impossible for the City to do. Dr. Meeks asked what base line we are starting with. Mayor Soderberg stated Council can ask the engineer to do traffic counts and analyze the impact on the road with having a school built there. Councilmember Pritzlaff stated paving Flagstaff to 195th Street and stopping creates a traffic hazard. He felt it was hitting a trap to go from paving to gravel and back to paving. Dr. Meeks suggested putting up signage saying pavement ends. Member Weyandt stated it is in everyone's best interest to have it paved. He felt it was reasonable to ask for something to substantiate that. It would be a substantial benefit to the City to have Flagstaff improved. Traffic from Apple Valley and Lakeville will use that road. It will be used by more than the school. Although the timing is not right, the school is incurring costs the City will eventually incur at some point. Mayor Soderberg noted if the City maintains the road at its present state, eventually development would come in and development would pay for it and turn it back to the City. Mayor Soderberg asked the City Attorney to address the assessment issue. Attorney Poehler stated the question was whether the school could have some of it or all of it assessed to the school district property. Mayor Soderberg added to have it reimbursed at a later date from other property owners. Attorney Poehler stated that could be an option, but because it is in ag preserve who knows when that would be developed. It is questionable whether the school would ever get paid. Mayor Soderberg noted there are some properties south of 195th that are outside of ag preserve. He asked ifthey could be assessed. Attorney Poehler replied they could be assessed only to the extent that they are benefited and they are not likely to be benefited until they develop. Mayor Soderberg asked about the properties north of 195th that are in ag preserve, could they agree to be assessed sometime in the future when they develop. Attorney Poehler felt they could agree. Mayor Soderberg stated so at some future date the assessment could be paid to the school district. Chair McKnight stated they have done that in the past where you put a contingent assessment on the property until it comes out of ag preserve then there is x number of years to develop it to incur the assessment. Attorney Poehler replied that is true, but it is questionable as to whether money would be available through that process. Mayor Soderberg explained properties not in ag preserve have had deferred assessments. When the properties come into development, the property pays the assessment as they are developed. The development of the property ends up paying for the project. With the exception of the ag preserve, properties outside of the development would in fact come back, but at a future date. The problem is, at this point the City cannot carry it. Mayor Soderberg stated he is ready to move forward with the feasibility study, but it does not make sense to do a feasibility study for half a project. He believes from a public safety standpoint Flagstaffneeds to be paved from Hwy 50 to the border. Chair McKnight felt there are two separate issues, who pays for it now versus is there an opportunity for deferred assessment. Attorney Poehler stated the City could not up front that cost, because they could not bond for it at this time, as they do not meet the 20% rule for 429 assessment. Mayor Soderberg stated there is an opportunity for the school district to be reimbursed in the future through deferred assessments. Attorney Poehler stated there may be, it would have to be researched further. Member Weyandt stated for the school to look at the feasibility they would want to know if there is an opportunity. He asked about Council/School Board Minutes April 6, 2005 Page 6 the timeftame it would take to do this. Attorney Poehler stated they could obtain this in a couple days. Member Weyandt asked about the current maintenance on the road. He asked if it was reasonable to ask the City to take the funds used for gravel and maintenance and put that towards a payment to the school if they were to upgrade the road. These costs would no longer be incurred and the City would have a much more serviceable road. City Engineer Mann agreed it would be a cost savings. Mayor Soderberg felt it was something the City could investigate. Councilmember Wilson stated we are assuming the road will be there by virtue of doing the feasibility study. In feasibility studies it is possible that there could be components not included in a feasibility report. For example, Council can discuss whether they pave the road between 19Sth and the Lakeville border, which will have to be done at some point, would be a greater cost to do just that stretch later. He felt they should focus on the feasibility study first, before assuming the pavement will be there, obviously that is implied. He wanted to get a resolution on doing the feasibility study tonight and then continue discussions on the actual project itself. Councilmember McKnight stated if the City wants to see the road to the border, the City needs to step up and order the feasibility report. Regarding communication, the school was given a checklist from the City ofthings that needed to be done. This puts the issues on the table and alleviates the communication puzzle. Dr. Meeks asked ifthere was an ordinance requiring the school to use City resources to conduct the feasibility study or can the school and the developer use their own resources to conduct the study. City Administrator Urbia stated the City has an agreement for professional services with Bonestroo. They are the City Engineer. The City Engineer is bonded to back the City, so to opt out ofthat is not in the City's interest. Dr. Meeks asked if there was anything that could prevent the school district or developer from seeking their own professional services that could be bonded. Mayor Soderberg stated the City Engineer would still have to do the review to protect the City's interest. The City needs to make sure it is done to City standards. In that case, it would be a duplication of expenses. The cost ofthe review is based on City fees. Councilmember Fogarty stated it would be a waste oftaxpayer dollars, paying for it twice. Dr. Meeks stated the school wants to maintain some objectivity in the report. The City was talking about the size of storm sewer and water main and that is pre-determining the outcome of the report. City Administrator Urbia stated we have to look at the big picture, and City Engineer Mann would remain objective in looking at the City's interest and all impacts. It is not just a school project at that point. We have to look at the donut in Lakeville. The City would not charge the school on the overage. The City would look to Lakeville or the Met Council to pay for that. Dr. Meeks stated if the school is paying the fees for all the work, they want to know where the fees are going, who is doing the work and make sure it is within the school's policy, practices and philosophy. City Administrator Urbia stated the City would specify the terms up front. Mayor Soderberg stated the school can use their own engineer for the design and development, but it will still be reviewed by the City Engineer and those fees will be paid. Chair McKnight suggested reviewing the decision on doing the feasibility study at their next board meeting. Dr. Meeks agreed to continue researching the feasibility study and Council/School Board Minutes April 6, 2005 Page 7 discuss this with the board. There is a concern with the school regarding the City wanting to pave Flagstaff to the border. This is outside ofthe plan shared with the public. Ifthe school agrees to this, there is the implication the school will pay for the road to the border. The school is not prepared to agree to that, they need further discussion. Dr. Meeks could not tell the board where the money would come from. Member Donnelly stated the feasibility plan submitted was to 19Sth Street. That is what the school told the voters. Councilmember Fogarty asked if the bond actually said to 19Sth Street. She thought it was a transportation bond. Member Donnelly replied there was a map and information presented at public meetings showing $6.2 million to get all the infrastructure to the high school and to pave Flagstaff to 19St Street. Councilmember Fogarty noted the City's recommendation was $6.9 million. Why did it get changed to $6.2 million? Mr. Griff Davenport, ofDLR Architects, stated they put together the original cost estimates from the school. He stated they did receive the estimate of $6.9 million from City Engineer Mann. However, they had already anticipated a certain amount of money in the budget. Rather than showing the full $6.9 million, they included $700,000 which they had already budgeted elsewhere for onsite improvements such as turn lanes. They are aware of the $6.9 million cost and there was also a fairly large contingency. Councilmember McKnight asked if the survey crews are still working and staff confirmed they are. Member Manthey asked how much extra does it cost to do a feasibility study from 19Sth Street to the border and how much more time does that take. City Engineer Mann replied they would have to analyze for the scope of services. Member Manthey asked if that amount could be shared. Councilmember Pritzlaff stated it is not so much the cost of the feasibility study. The road will cost more than the feasibility study. Member Manthey stated first they have to decide if they will allow a feasibility study from 19Sth to the border. The school board agreed they wanted to discuss this further. Councilmember Pritzlaff asked ifthere were any other major issues on the checklist. Member Weyandt stated they have only had the document for 24 hours and have not had a chance to review it. He assumed the major issues are there and staff has reviewed this collectively. Mayor Soderberg stated first we need to determine if Flagstaff north of 19Sth Street needs to be done. He felt Council could order a traffic study to determine that need. If it is identified that it does need to be done, the City still cannot pay for it. Councilmember Pritzlaff asked ifthe traffic engineer says it does not need to be done, would Council take it offthe list. Mayor Soderberg replied if the traffic engineer says it does not need to be done and it does not create a safety hazard, it would have to be discussed at that time. Member Donnelly asked if there were warrants for a certain amount of traffic before paving a road. City Engineer Mann replied it is a rule ofthumb, there are no warrants for that. They consider maintenance, number of accidents and the nature of gravel versus paving. There are no warrants in the traffic manual. MOTION by Soderberg, second by McKnight, to authorize engineering to do a traffic study as identified in the discussions to determine traffic volumes and the potential increases in traffic volumes generated by a school development on Flagstaff Avenue north of 19Sth Street. City Engineer Mann stated they will obtain the current counts and project the difference with a school site. The traffic engineer can quantify what could be change based on the high school. Ifthis does not achieve the objective, they will determine what can be done. The survey crew will continue working on the site as the information will be useful at some point barring any significant changes. They are Council/School Board Minutes April 6, 2005 Page 8 currently setting control points. The cost of doing a traffic study could be approximately $5,000. APIF, MOTION CARRIED. a. 20Sth Street Alignment Mr. Davenport stated he has met with City Engineer Mann regarding the routing of20gth Street to be consistent with the County's expectations. Once the alignment of20gth Street is resolved they can continue with development of the rest ofthe site. Originally the County laid the road out with a 2,000 ft. radius which meant a higher speed limit. The City suggested reducing the radius to gOO ft. He presented a map showing 202nd Street connecting to Cedar Avenue and connecting with 20gth Street. He suggested to the school to develop play fields in the path of20gth Street. He would like to reach a consensus on this plan. Councilmember Wilson asked if once a recommendation has been made for the 20gth Street alignment will the County put this on their CIP. City Engineer Mann stated 20gth Street will be a city road. The City has petitioned the county, since they have identified this as an important east-west corridor and will alleviate traffic from other roads, to participate in a cost-sharing for this road. If this is achieved, staff does not know if it would be for the entire alignment. Member Davis asked about the timeline for 20gth Street. Mayor Soderberg stated ifthis segment is built from Flagstaff through the site it will also cross other properties. Mr. Davenport stated this alignment follows the county's alignment. The school will develop a circular design around the building with potential access to 20gth Street. Councilmember Fogarty felt the timeline would be development driven. Member Davis asked ifit was critical20gth Street continue past Flagstaff. Mayor Soderberg stated the County has identified and the City has agreed it is critical 20gth connect with 202nd which crosses Cedar Avenue. Member Davis asked where 20gth Street lies on the City's wish list. Mayor Soderberg replied 20gth Street east from the Middle School to Hwy 3 is on par with 195th Street to the east. 195th Street has more eminent development. Councilmember Fogarty stated they are only looking at 20gth Street because ofthe high school. Mayor Soderberg noted 20gth Street would come with development. City Engineer Mann stated they need to plat the corridor with the project so it is identified. Mayor Soderberg stated the City would do an agreement for ball fields in the area until development occurs. 6. 20Sth Street/Dallas Intersection City staff and school staff have discussed the issue with the Middle School and the intersection of Dallas Avenue. They have identified some options to deal with the situation. When 20gth Street connects with Hwy 3 it will become more of an issue. Staff prepared a drawing which identifies an additional access to the parking lot that would be a right-in only access. This would allow vehicles and buses to circulate through the parking lot. The cost estimate is $105,000. Chair McKnight noted they will lose some parking and asked what the impact would be. City staffwill identify the number of spaces lost in the analysis. Council/School Board Minutes April 6, 2005 Page 9 7. Schedule Next Meeting The next meeting was scheduled for Wednesday, May 4,2005 at 5:30 p.m. at the Middle School East. All future meetings will be held at the Middle School and will be televised live. 8. Adjourn MOTION by Fogarty, second by McKnight to adjourn at 7:34 p.m. APIF, MOTION CARRIED. MOTION by Davis, second by Manthey to adjourn at 7:34 p.m. APIF, MOTION CARRIED. Respectfully submitted, /) .-L# dJ ('~C-d0 /Y?~~ ,.7" ~ynthia Muller Executive Assistant