HomeMy WebLinkAbout08.11.08 Work Session Minutes
City Council Workshop Minutes
August 11, 2008
Mayor Soderberg called the workshop to order at 6:30 p.m.
Present: Soderberg, Fogarty, McKnight, Pritzlaff, Wilson
Also Present: Peter Herlofsky, City Administrator; Lisa Shadick, Administrative Services
Director; Tina Hansmeier, Economic Development Specialist; Cynthia Muller, Executive
Assistant
Audience: Charlie and Joanne Weber, Kris Akin, Leon Orr, Kathryn Akin, Blanche Reichert,
Ed Samuelson, Gil Anderson, Marilyn Briesacher, Tim Burke, Patti Norman, Colin Garvey,
Allen Koss, Dave McMillen
MOTION by Pritzlaff, second by Wilson to approve the agenda. APIF, MOTION CARRIED.
Mayor Soderberg asked for comments from the residents on the use of the current City Hall site.
Ms. Blanche Reichert, 113 Oak Street, member of the Rambling River Center, felt this was an
excellent location for a Senior Center/Teen Center. There is lots of parking and space. Some
walls would have to be re-arranged. Teens need a place to go as they are all over downtown
after 9:00 p.m. There is vandalism, they throw garbage in the Depot Way Arts Park and then the
City has to pick it up and residents pay for it. At the current Rambling River Center there is not
terrific parking, and with the new City Hall, parking for seniors will be impossible. She feels the
Rambling River Center should be torn down and made into a parking lot. The foundation is
crumbling. She has heard some people want the current City Hall site to be a Vets Memorial
park. To have a memorial for the vets is a terrific idea, but she does not think this is the spot for
it. It needs to be in the Rambling River Park along the road, so when people drive through town
they can see the memorial for the vets and remember them. Northfield has a terrific memorial on
TH3. If the memorial is on the City Hall site, she feels it will become a skate board park after
10:00 p.m.
Mr. Leon Orr, 19161 Echo Lane, Chairperson of the Farmington Area Veteran's Memorial
Committee, stated the Farmington area veterans have been trying to locate a memorial since
1925. They were actively looking for a place when they were informed there was a possibility
that one of the considerations for the current City Hall site was the City might develop a
downtown park and would they be interested in being a part of that downtown park with a
Veteran's Memorial if that is the direction Council took. Members of the committee evaluated
several sites; current City Hall site, north of the current City Hall, Rambling River Park, Dakota
County Fairgrounds, Vermillion River Crossings, and the future Farmington North Community
Park. They assigned points based on public visibility, adequate size, availability, convenient
parking, routinely available to people, easily developed, utilities available, shared with other
public facilities, and historically appropriate. After evaluating the sites, the current City Hall
location was the first choice, the second choice was north of the current City Hall in some type
of redevelopment effort, and the third choice was Rambling River Park, then Dakota County
Fairgrounds, Vermillion River Crossings, and Farmington North Community Park. Whether this
site is chosen for a downtown park or not, the committee is clear their first choice for a memorial
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would be in the downtown area for several reasons. When recognizing veterans of many, many
decades past up to the present, that by itself is historical by nature. In the historical downtown
they felt this would be appropriate. As far as visibility, they want it to not just be visible, but
easily accessible in a passive manner. Rambling River Park is more of an active park. This is
more of a reflective, quiet type of memorial. Council was given a drawing a month ago of what
the committee developed. That would be the concept phase and next would be the detail design.
The actual dedicated space for the memorial takes 20% of the space for the downtown park.
During certain veterans activities, the public would use the whole park for a veteran's event. Mr.
Orr has visited memorials in various parts of the country. The Northfield memorial is a very nice
facility. It is visible from the highway, but is more of a passing visibility as opposed to
convenient access by the public. The proposed memorial contains a waterfall to drown out
ambient noises in general. One resident asked what the rest of the park would be like. Mr.Orr
noted that would be up to the City to determine. Mr. Orr envisioned a historical park. In their
drawings, they show a shelter modeled after the railroad depot.
Mr. Ed Samuelson, asked what the original cost was of the current City Hall. He asked if a
feasibility study has been done on the building. City Administrator Herlofsky stated there was
one done when a new City Hall was considered to determine if there was sufficient reason to
spend money on this building. Councilmember Fogarty recalled it was more to evaluate whether
a new City Hall should be built or whether this building could be built up and it could not, or if it
could be expanded, and inefficiencies of the building. She was not sure if a study for different
types of uses has been done. Mr. Samuelson asked if Council would consider having a
feasibility study done before they make a decision on this building. Mayor Soderberg felt a
feasibility study has an end goal in mind. City Administrator Herlofsky stated staffhas received
some numbers to make it useful, but there was not a specific purpose designed for the building.
It is difficult to say what you can do unless you first decide what you will do with it. There are
heating and cooling issues. Mr. Samuelson understood the City needs to retain ownership of the
land because of the well. Mayor Soderberg stated it makes it difficult to sell the parcel because
of the well. City Administrator Herlofsky stated the City has to have control of 50 ft.
surrounding the well and that cuts into portions of the building. Mr. Samuelson asked if Council
has a timeline for their decision and if it would be this Council making the decision or a future
Council. Mayor Soderberg replied it has not been determined. Mr. Samuelson has heard about a
possible park and recreation referendum being proposed in the future. He asked if funding for
this potential would be part of that and if there is a timeline. Mayor Soderberg stated that has not
been determined.
Councilmember Pritzlaff asked staff to obtain the appraised value of this building the way it is
now.
Mr. Oil Anderson, 713 Spruce Street, is a member of the American Legion, and is in favor of
having a nice memorial. However, it has to be something visible. He does not think the current
City Hall site is visible. Something at the Rambling River Park, children will ask questions
about it and they want to get the kids involved. Mr. Anderson is also on the Rambling River
Center Board and they would like to use the current City Hall building. It was originally built
for the youth as a Community Center. He felt they would be missing the boat to not trade the
current Rambling River Center for this building looking at the outside structure, the foundation,
the heating, the square footage, etc. A parking lot at the current Rambling River Center site
would be useful for the new City Hall. Parking is a big issue when anything is going on.
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Ms. Kris Akin, owner of 302 Oak Street, was a business owner for 20 years in downtown
Farmington, there have been surveys done by the City and the Chamber asking residents what
they would like to see in the community. One thing that has been brought up many times is a
Teen Center. There are lots of outdoor programs, but not so many indoor programs. If the Parks
and Recreation Department does not want to do it, then rent it to the YMCA, or someone who
will do something indoors for kids. As a downtown business owner there is a problem with teens
downtown. She would be mortified if they had a memorial downtown that was defaced or that
was treated disrespectfully. She believes the memorial should be at Rambling River Park
because it is a showcase of the community. When talking to other people, what they remember
about Farmington is the beautiful park and the river. If the City were to rent the building, she
does not consider it competition as a building owner. She considers it good competition to help
get other businesses with more people coming and going so if the City decides to rent this
building to other businesses, offices, retail, it is not competition. It is good for the downtown.
Farmington needs an adult daycare, so if a Senior Center or a Teen Center was located here, that
would work well with an adult daycare situation. We have the nursing home, the community
home health, but we do not have an adult daycare where you can drop off a person for respite
care during the day. That is another type of business Farmington needs.
Ms. Marilyn Briesacher, member of the Rambling River Center, stated since she has been on the
board she realizes how much they are outgrowing the space. One of their goals is to be a
resource to the community. We cannot provide some of the services because we do not have the
room. There are a lot of things going on at the same time such as card playing, line dancing,
they are interacting and the noise gets to be an issue. The parking is a big issue. There were
only two days out of all of last year that the facility was not being used. They provide space for
4-H, Girl Scouts, churches, receptions, AA meetings, Alanon meetings. There are senior
programs consisting of card playing, organ club, model train club, computer classes, use of the
computers for seniors, line dancing, yoga, men's coffee group, fitness center, wood carving. For
non-members there is also the day old bread program, blood pressure checks, happy feet, 55
Alive classes, senior food for health program, and CAP dining. With all these things going on,
they could use the space of a larger facility and be a resource for the community they would like
to be.
Mr. Charlie Weber, 5220 Robin Lane, member of the Rambling River Center Board and the
Parks and Recreation Commission, noted there is a lot of talk about what it will take to upgrade
this building. He had a copy of the estimates and there are a couple things he wanted to point
out. One is the demolition ofthe existing building is $210,000. It does not say anything about
fixing the ground the building sits on after it is torn down. You do not build a park for 50 cents.
All of the things noted such as heating, etc. they have the same problem if not worse, at the
Rambling River Center today. They have two furnaces, one does not have an air conditioner and
the one that is there does not keep up. This is an excellent opportunity for this to be a
community project for the young and old to work together in making these changes. In the past
the Rambling River Center has put things in the budget that most of the time were turned down
and the seniors raised the money with the help of the community to fix those things.
Mr. Tim Burke, 20087 Heathrow Way, did not have anything to add about what the potential use
of this building might be, but they have heard a lot of potentially very good uses of this building.
I think it would be a horrible waste to knock this building down. The things we want to
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accomplish here can be accomplished in other places where we do not have to destroy a perfectly
good and functional building. Across the block is an open lot that the Council and EDA have
been struggling with for a long time to try and put a building there. We have a perfectly good
building here and some people want to knock it down. If the issue is where do we want to put a
memorial, there are other excellent opportunities. He liked the idea of the memorial being at
Rambling River Park where there is more green space and more space to conduct activities
around it and gather. Having a resource like this and doing away with it would be a terrible
waste of resources in this community that we would come to regret in very short order.
Mr. Colin Garvey, asked when it was decided the well house could not be split. He believed
there was a study done in 2003, 2004 and there was a task force. He was personally called and
asked if he was interested in buying the City Hall. They were going to put this up for sale and
thought they could get $583,000 for it. That was the reason for choosing the new site, was
because the well house could be split off. He asked where it was changed that it could not be
split. Mayor Soderberg did not know that it had been changed, but you still have to control 50 ft.
around the well site. Mr. Garvey understood that, but he heard earlier that it was just about
impossible, and that is not what was said four years ago. Mayor Soderberg stated it makes the
site less desirable. Mr. Garvey feels the current City Hall should be put up for sale and the
money could be used to remodel the old Senior Center and buy the building next to it. There are
enough spaces sitting in town and the rest of the business community is struggling. Every
project there are assessments and values are going down, businesses are leaving. There is too
much space sitting already. To tear this down to have another space, he cannot believe they are
even thinking about it. At the worst, a Senior Center/Teen Center makes good sense. He was
here in 2005 when the Veteran's Memorial people came to town and Rambling River Park was
their first choice. That seems to be changed also. The use of this building has changed quite a
bit since the original task force came up with a City Hall site. He felt it should be put up for sale
and start reducing some of the taxes.
Ms. Kris Akin suggested moving the liquor store to the current City Hall site if the City will be
retaining ownership of the building.
Mr. Ed Samuelson asked ifthe school district has expressed any interest in the building. They
have not.
Mr. Allen Koss, 1032 I st Street, asked what the procedure will be now. Mayor Soderberg replied
Council will take the input received, along with the estimates staff has received from the
architect, get answers to some of the questions regarding the original cost, and any earlier
studies. This information will be compiled and somewhere in the future there will be another
workshop to discuss it. Mr. Koss stated they receive a lot of communication from the City. He
suggested polling the City population with a tear out in a mailing such as the water bill or the
newsletter, list the suggestions offered, and see what people think. The kids have nothing to do
at night. He has watched them set fires along the railroad tracks, put objects on the railroad
tracks to be hit by the train, they have nothing else to do. St. Michael's Church has to be used as
a community building, as Farmington does not have a community building. He felt this would
be an ideal spot.
Mr. Dave McMillen, 19440 Elsmere Court, appreciated the City and the Veteran's Memorial
Committee looking into the memorial. Wherever it goes is fine, but to use this building as a
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Senior Center is the right thing to do. The seniors as well as the teens are an asset to this
community and we need to look out for them. He uses the current Rambling River Center once a
month as a member ofthe model railroad club. It gets brutally hot and noisy, and for the seniors
that use that building everyday, it is nice they have a place, but this building with the heating and
air conditioning fixed, would provide a more secure, user friendly space for seniors. We have to
keep these people in mind. They are an asset to the community.
Mr. Tim Burke noted Council mentioned there was an estimate on the cost of doing something
with this building. He asked what the Council was going to do, because he thought just like a
feasibility study, unless you know how you intend to use it, getting a cost estimate is a waste of
time, unless it is purely mechanical. Mayor Soderberg stated that is what the estimates were.
Mr. Burke would like to know the source of the estimates and what they actually are and
suggested staff put them on the website. City Administrator Herlofsky stated any estimate
without a specific purpose is a guess and that is what was provided. It was technical based on
the heating and cooling to give us some indication.
Ms. Kris Akin assumed when Council makes a decision they will have an estimate for the
current Rambling River Center building of what that will cost to maintain it or sell it. Mayor
Soderberg stated we would have that information by what it has cost us in the past and estimates
for upgrades or improvements. As the improvements are identified there will be studies done to
determine the cost. City Administrator Herlofsky stated the Council in good faith is looking for
suggestions so the efforts will bring the community together and not create division. The
purpose is to get as much good information as possible.
Councilmember Wilson noted some residents have mentioned a Senior Center/Teen Center. He
asked if they can work well together. Mr. Charlie Weber stated Prior Lake has one. It works
well because the seniors take their nap at 3:00 p.m. and the kids get up at 3:00 p.m. Ms. Blanche
Reichert stated there would have to be a Teen Board with the Senior Board and some
supervision. We have to get the kids involved with community things.
Mr. Colin Garvey stated this was all looked at when the City Hall site was chosen. At that time
it was decided to put this building up for sale. He asked when that changed. It was supposed to
be sold to pay down the debt. Mayor Soderberg was not aware that it was decided, it was
discussed.
Councilmember Pritzlaff thought the estimate for fixing this building was high and thought all
those improvements had to be made. He found out that is not the case. Whatever is on the list as
far as what can be done to upgrade the building, just because we change the use, all of that does
not have to be done. City Administrator Herlofsky stated until we decide a use, it is hard to
determine which of them will have to be done. If the Senior Center/Teen Center is the
consensus, what timeframe are we looking at? We move into the new City Hall next month, he
does not envision this building being empty 3-5 months before a decision is made. Mayor
Soderberg stated we have not determined any timelines. The only thing we know is that we
move into the new building August 25, 2008. Then it will be up to Council to determine the
time line.
A resident noted when Council was discussing building the Community Center in northern
Farmington, it was a combined building for seniors, kids, activities, ball park. When that study
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was done, there was a lot of money spent on that. We could not afford to build it at this time, so
how can we afford to tear down a building we have.
Ms. Kris Akin stated with the Downtown Business Association planning events, she felt a
Farmers Market would be nice in this area. They are doing quarterly events. Whatever Council
decides, make it quick. Don't let it sit empty. That is what hurts people trying to rent and sell
buildings.
Councilmember McKnight stated he has heard from plenty of people before tonight and it is also
his preference to look at what it would take to turn this into a Senior Center. Everything does not
have to happen over night. He would have no problem asking Rambling River Center staff,
Missie, Peter, and staff to look at this building and what it would take to move in a month or two
after we are in the new City Hall. Turning it into a Senior Center is his first preference.
Councilmember Fogarty felt a Senior Center/Teen Center is a great use for this building. She
would like to hear more about what Prior Lake is doing. She does not want this building sitting
empty. We should have had this conversation six months ago so that we could be converting this
in a month, but that did not happen. We do not need a long drawn out discussion if we have a
consensus of what we want done. If obstacles become impossible then we will have to re-
evaluate. It seems the majority of Council is leaning towards a concept and if that is what we are
going with, let's dive in and see what it will take and what we need. Let's find out how Prior
Lake works theirs so we don't re-invent the wheel.
Councilmember Wilson suggested forming a short time ad hoc committee with one or two
Councilmembers, members of the Rambling River Center Board, teen advocates and have three
or four meetings to come up with a recommendation. Councilmember Fogarty agreed.
Councilmember Pritzlaff stated he was in favor of the Senior Center/Teen Center. The parking
in the downtown has been a problem, but that is not his biggest concern. Sometimes things
cannot be done overnight, but if it becomes a Senior Center he would like to see it within a
month.
MOTION by Fogarty, second by McKnight to adjourn at 7:20 p.m. APIF, MOTION
CARRIED.
Respectfully submitted,
~~ J~7~7~~
13;nthia Muller
Executive Assistant
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