HomeMy WebLinkAbout11.29.93 Special Council Minutes
L85
MINUTES
COUNCIL MEETING
SPECIAL
NOVEMBER 29, 1993
1. Mayor Kuchera called the meeting to order at 7:00 P.M..
Members Present: Kuchera, Ristow, Orr, Rotty, Galler.
Members Absent: None.
Also Present: Administrator Thompson, Engineer Kaldunski.
2. Mayor Kuchera opened a public hearing at 7:00 P.M..
Administrator Thompson gave an introduction to the pine Knoll
Sanitary Sewer Project.
Engineer Kaldunski presented an overview of the project, noting:
a. sewer design,
b. lift stations,
c. street designs - 203rd Street - 38', remainder - 34',
d. sidewalks,
e. no boulevard trees.
Mike Rutten from the Dakota County Department of Health presented
an overview of the proposed Dakota County Ordinance #113
(Individual Septic Treatment System Regulations) .
Lee Smith from the Dakota County HRA presented an overview of the
assessment abatement program for low income property owners, noting
that guidelines do vary and income guidelines do change.
Administrator Thompson presented an overview of the estimated
assessments, noting:
a. assessments must be fair, equitable and cannot exceed the
increase in market value;
b. Council may consider equalizing sewer assessments throughout
the project.
Questions:
Todd Stark:
Is household income adjusted for
child support paYments?
Lee Smith:
That is up to the Council, but
generally no.
Dave Pritzlaff:
Why should we be assessed and pay a
fee and the unbuilt lots only have to
pay a fee without assessment.
Adm. Thompson:
The hook up fee would be approximate
to the amount of the assessments.
186 Council Minutes - 11/29/93 - Page 2, (Special)
Marion Swanson: Where are you going to put the line
with all the water, CATV, and so on?
Why install it on the west side?
Eng. Kaldunski:
It will fit on the west side.
Marion Swanson:
You are going to tear up County Road
31 anyway. Why not wait until then?
Why not the east side?
Eng. Kaldunski: There are no plans to tear up County
31. Also, the FAA cable runs on the
east side and most of the houses are on the west.
Dave Pritzlaff:
How do you service the east?
Eng. Kaldunski:
Jack under County 31 and run
laterals.
Robin Link:
$8,500. Reduce it to $3,000.
I question the estimated increased
market value. Mine will never go up
Adm. Thompson: The $5,500 reduction would have to be
picked up by the general taxpayers
and the City must assess at least 20%.
Kevin Keane:
will the PCA programs reduce the
cost?
Eng. Kaldunski:
There ,are no grants, only loans. It
appears that we may get a loan at
3.5% to 3.7%.
Adm. Thompson:
Actual assessed rate would be
approximately 5.0%.
Todd Stark:
Why are you doing it? Why is it
needed?
Joan Shea:
Can the sewer be extended just up
County 31?
Eng. Kaldunski:
It can be done, but the cost may be
higher.
Bob Shea: (Gave a history of the last petition
approximately 10 years ago.) People
along County 31 have always been in ,favor.
Cm. Galler: (Why is it proposed?) The road is in
poor shape, County Ordinance #113
regulations, interest rates are low, and septic tanks are failing.
Council Minutes - 11/29/93 - Page 3 (Special)
187
Ed Ulvi: I got a notice that says I have to
put in a new system. How long will
it be before sewer is extended to my property?
Cm. Galler:
We have no plans to extend sewer into
your area.
Cm. Orr:
Would your neighbors want sewer?
Ed Ulvi:
I suspect they will need sewer.
installs the project. We are
costs and assessments for the
The cycle of good/failing systems
will never stop until the City
trying to propose the best possible
project.
Cm. Orr:
Arlo Wiggert: Why are the east side shown as one
lot and the interior lots as 2 lots?
Can my lot be assessed as one if I agree not to split it?
Adm. Thompson: The Council has the authority to
defer assessments. The problem is if
your property is assessed for one and you split it. Also there is
the concern by the Metropolitan Council allowing hookups to vacant
lots.
Jay Johnson:
My lot can't be divided into 2 lots.
A swimming pool is on the second lot.
Cm. Galler: We are just making estimates at this
time. We don't have to do the
project. No one is forcing it on you at this time.
Mitchell Lemke:
(Market Value) Why are you stuck on
tpe set amount of $8,500.00.
Cm. Galler:
We don't know what the actual
indivldual lot will be assessed at
this time.
Jim Reisinger:
Am I in or out of the project?
Eng. Kaldunski:
In every study you have been out.
Jim Reisinger: Most of your systems don't meet code.
It is going to cost you between $5000
and $7,000 to install a new system.
Bill Terpening:
You have to look at individuals and
ask if the property values are going
You should do a study and find out what the actual
The people would be happy if the assessments were in
up $8,500.
benefit is.
line.
188
Council Minutes - 11/29/93 - Page 4 (Special)
Richard McDonald: There are a lot of questions and very
few answers. Why are taxes higher in
Pine Knoll than in Dakota County Estates? (Read a letter in
opposition to the project; it is unwarranted and unwanted. The
quality of the road is okay with him and his septic system works
fine. He presented the letter.)
Marion Swanson:
I have a 3 1/2 acre lot, but it can't
be divided. My major objection is
the amount of the assessment.
Henry Iwerks: Both sides have to work together. I
felt the citizens were hassled at the
last meeting. You cannot assess anymore than the value of the
property increases. Rumors are going around that the people in
Pine Knoll want the other people in town to pay for the project.
I'm happy with the information presented tonight.
Cm. Orr:
The tone of this hearing has been
related to assessments, but the
to determine the merits of the project. While
actual assessments will be faced at a later
actual purpose is
they are related,
hearing.
Chris Berner: We are paying 100% of the sewer with
a 65%/35% split on the street. It is
my understanding it used to be 80%/20%. Does the Council feel that
these are fair and equitable assessments?
Todd Stark:
Why do you have to hook up within one
year?
Cm. Orr:
We are thinking of changing that.
Cm. Galler:
We though about deferring the hook up
fee with interest, issuing credits
just allowing people to pay interest on the assessment until
owner hooks up.
and
the
Todd Stark:
How can you order a project and not
know what the assessment will be?
Cm. Galler:
We wo~'t know what the assessments
will be until we get bids.
Adm. Thompson:
We don't do a detailed study until
the actual assessment hearing.
Richard McDonald:
Are you holding the property hostage
if you place "pending assessments"
against the property?
Council Minutes - 11/29/93 - Page 5 (Special)
, "9
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Carol Pilcher:
What do you need to get the project
started?
Cm. Orr: We probably will order the project
tonight or in the future, but right
now the purpose of the hearing is fact finding.
Bill Terpening: Is there any way to get the costs in
line that would more accurately
reflect market value increase?
Joan Shea:
I believe most want the sewer, but
are mainly concerned about the
assessment.
Lee Wiggert:
(Double lot)
the project.
I am very opposed to
How will you determine
credits?
Cm. Galler: If they conform to standards, they
would get a credit after having an
inspection (cost shared between the City and homeowner) .
Lee Wiggert:
How do you determine buildable lots?
Adm. Thompson:
10,000 square feet, 75' at the
building line and readily
subdividable.
Lee Wiggert: I would like to have an assessor take
a before and after value. Don't use
a square curb, use surmountable.
Eugene Clay:
When are you going to start
inspections?
Michael Rutten: It could change, but pre 1940
construction would be inspected
first, then 1940's, 1950's and soon. Your homes would be
inspected in 1996 thru 1998.
Cm. Orr:
How long would assessments be
pending?
If we order the project, it would
probably be pending until April.
Lucille Hennessey:
Kevin Keane:
I'm in favor of the project. Why is
there no cost sharing on the sewer?
Cm. Galler:
We share on reconstruction; new
facilities are assessed 100%.
190
Council Minutes - 11/29/93 - Page 6 (Special)
Kevin Keane:
Can streets be put in without sewer?
Cm. Orr: I don't think we could get a
consensus. If we would, 10 years
from now we would be criticized just as past Councils are being
criticized tonight.
Kevin Keane:
So you think you can justify the
assessments?
Cm. Orr:
That will come out at the assessment
hearing.
Marion Swanson:
I never got the notice of the
hearing. Are people on Akin Road
being assessed for streets?
Cm. Orr:
No.
Bob Pilcher: What !'m hearing is that more facts
will come out at the assessment
hearing. Most people are in favor, but are concerned about the
assessments.
Sharon McCarthy:
I live next to the park, am I in or
out?
Eng. Kaldunski:
Out.
Robin Link:
to put in a mound system.
realtor, do you think the
Maybe septic systems that work today
will not work tomorrow. We may have
(To Councilmember Galler) You're a
assessed value will increase?
Mark Hoese:
How many lots are owned by political
subdivisions?
Cm. Orr:
The City owns 8, the State has 1.
Mark Hoese:
Is there any difference in
assessments?
Adm. Thompson:
There are some procedural
differences, but not in amounts.
Frank Lamberty:
If you have to upgrade and you don't
have room, a mound system is going to
be needed, which is costly.
Michael Rutten:
(Described a typical septic system
layout. )
Allen Wokson:
I need to know what assessments are
before I say if I'm for or against.
Council Minutes - 11/29/93 - Page 7 (Special)
191
Bob Pilcher:
What are the next steps?
Dirk Rotty:
Order the project and prepare plans
and specifications.
Robin Link:
Could,you do random tests to see how
many systems are failing and if they
have enough land?
Cm. Galler: I don't think many people would want
us to test because if we find the
system is failing, it will have to be replaced.
Todd Stark:
The assessments don't include
connection costs or septic tank
abandonment.
Craig Stibbe:
I don't want it. I'm at the end of
the run.
Pat Devney:
Is the line going to be sized to go
beyond the project boundaries?
Eng. Kaldunski:
No.
Pat Devney:
Trucks hauling fill caused damage.
Eng. Kaldunski:
The street was repaired under the
contract.
Bill Peterson:
Regarding credits, will you have
exact ,figures at the assessment
hearing?
Cm. Galler:
Yes.
David Pritzlaff: I checked with Genz/Ryan and the
costs for abandonment are $300 to
$400, and $3000 for the hookup.
Bob Shea:
I got an estimate of $2400 to do
everything.
Mrs. Jay Johnson:
Who makes the decision? (Council)
Think long and hard because I will
have to move.
Henry Iwerks:
What is the City's assessment policy
going to be? Are you going to assess
only the increase in value?
192
Council Minutes - 11/29/93 - Page 8 (Special)
Council:
State Law mandates it, not City
policy.
Bill Terpening:
The County is talking inspecting in 8
to 9 years. The County doesn't have
ordinances yet?
Mike Rutten:
Inspections will be made in 1996 to
1998.
Bill Terpening:
You're sticking a gun to our head
with the "proposed" ordinance.
Mike Rutten: What if 75% to 80% of the lots
wouldn't meet code. The systems will
eventually need to be replaced.
Bob Doll: When we do apply (for the credit),
the City will say your system is bad
just to get the entire $8,500.
MOTION by Orr, second by Kuchera to 'close the hearing. APIF,
MOTION CARRIED.
3. Councilmember Orr asked if the City Council would consider
expanding the project area to include Mr. Ulvi? Councilmember Orr
stated he would like to proceed with the project. Councilmember
Galler stated he wished to delay the project for 30 days so people
could get property sales in order and not have to escrow for
pending assessments. MOTION by Orr; second by Kuchera to adopt
RESOLUTION NO. R137-93 ordering Project No. 88-4 - Pine Knoll
Sanitary Sewer and to order the preparation of plans and
specifications. VOTING FOR: Orr, Kuchera, Ristow, Galler.
ABSTAIN: Rotty. MOTION CARRIED.
4. MOTION by Galler, second by Orr to adjourn at 10:15 P.M..
APIF, MOTION CARRIED.
~pec~ submitted,
17
Larry Thompson
City Administrator
Approved
/~/93