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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 8-13-19Planning Commission Minutes Regular Meeting August 13, 2019 1. Call to Order Chair Rotty called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Members Present: Rotty, Franceschelli, Tesky, Windschitl Members Absent: None Also Present: Tony Wippler, Planning Manager 2. Approval of Minutes a. MOTON by Tesky, second by Franceschelli to approve the minutes of July 9, 2019. APIF, MOTION CARRIED. 3. Discussion a. Draft Ordinance Amending Section 10-6-4 of the City Code as it Relates to Recreational Vehicle Parking This draft ordinance pertains to on-street recreational vehicle parking. Currently the city code 10-6-4(L) allows for parking of recreational vehicles on the street for a period not to exceed 72 hours. They cannot be parked on the street between April 1 and November 15 between 2:30 and 5:30 a.m. due to winter parking restrictions. Staff suggests amending this section to reference 9-1-4(F) of the police regulations. This change is proposed because of the number of complaints received about recreational vehicles being stored on streets. Staff has been working with the police department to consistently enforce on- street parking. The 72 hour provision is very hard to regulate. One way to regulate this is to not allow parking on the streets between 2:00 and 5:00 a.m. A resident can obtain a permit from the police department to park on the street for 72 hours. Only three permits per year are allowed. Mr. Andrew Null, 19664 Evergreen Trail, he agrees with the amendment, but would like to see a change. If someone uses a trailer for work, they should be exempt or maybe get a permit to show it is for work, because they might not have access to other storage. Having it for three consecutive days is fine, but having it for a total of six days is a burden with an RV. They use their RV twice a month. They take it out of Supreme Storage, fill it with water, power it up, load up the food so it is there twice a month over night and there are five to six camping months in the year. They would need 18 days total. He would like to see the written consent from the neighbors removed unless you are over the property line. The verbage of 7,000 to 15,000 lbs is confusing. Staff noted this ordinance is for commercial and recreational vehicles. Ms. Colleen Keough, 19087 Everest Path, owns an RV trailer and has received a warning ticket for parking it on the street overnight. The police said this ordinance was already in effect and that we had to call 24 hours in advance and we only get six times per summer season. They store it at Supreme Storage and pull it out the night before. They put water in it, turn on the fridge, put food in and take off the next day. It is never on the street for more than 24 hours. We are splitting hairs with the 7,000 lbs. How will you enforce that? Are they going to get out and read the verbage on the trailer to see how much it weighs? She thought we have to classify recreational vehicles and not be concerned with how much it weighs. The concern here is not the weight it is that it’s an eyesore for some people. This is Minnesota. In the summer we camp, in the winter we drive snowmobiles Planning Commission Minutes August 13, 2019 Page 2 down the street. At what point do we lose our right to have recreational vehicles? She is disappointed to see this. She knows there are people that push the envelope that don’t have storage for their camper, but the police could tell those people. They know which vehicles are on the street every day. She is against this. Member Franceschelli asked when you have your camper on the street, do you feel that it is safely parked there? That it won’t be vandalized? Or do you have other concerns about using that space in front of your property? Ms. Keough responded even if you leave your vehicle in the driveway it can get broken into. We lock it and leave our outside lights on. It is an acceptable risk. You are not replacing one code for another; they are not the same. There is different language and different rules. Staff stated it is a swap of the verbage. Ms. Keough stated but the rules would change. Staff stated the existing rules are in place, we are just referencing a different code provision. The rules are in place already. Ms. Keough stated the rule is that you can leave it on the street for 72 consecutive hours and if we replace it with the new one that would still be the case. Staff replied no. It would fall to the 9-1-4 code. Ms. Keough stated that is her point. You are not just replacing one for the other with a code number. Mr. Brett Cummings, 5168 187th Street, the question about whether I chose to leave my property, I have a small 6x10 box trailer that I use for recreational purposes. It was parked in front of his house, a kid came around the corner, blew through the stop sign, hit the trailer and it is probably totaled. He still likes to be able to park his boat out front when he is hunting and fishing. Because of an injury, it is painful to pull his boat up his driveway, but he has to do it. This is not swapping one for the other, it is a complete change. Right now we have the ability to park on the road for 72 hours. Changing it to say we only get six days annually, he might have two weeks in the summer where he goes fishing for two or three days so it sits out front. He is good about calling the city asking if it is okay. Now in the new provisions we aren’t allowed to do that. He lives on a busy street, but he is still going to park his boat on the street. To take that away is extremely frustrating. It is our liability if it gets hit. He understands not having a bunch of dumpy trailers and vehicles parked on the street, but if it is a contractor coming home late and has to leave early, that stuff will happen. A resident asked for clarification regarding a vehicle in excess of 7,000 lbs or any trailer….does that mean a trailer less than 7,000 lbs is permitted? Staff stated it is any trailer. It’s the vehicle that is in excess of 7,000 lbs. The resident stated both of these rules are being enforced simultaneously. They received something for their trailer that it was there in excess of 72 hours when they first purchased it and didn’t know the rule. Within a matter of days their neighbor got a pink tag that references the other code. It sounds like the problem might be enforcement and not an impact to the community. He suggested a yearly permit that would allow if they see it, it can remain there for one night and if they see it a second night, the law is broken. He agreed with preparing the trailer as that is a necessity. The previous people have storage at Supreme Storage, he does not have a space there and their vehicle is parked in Cannon Falls. That is 2.5 hours just to move it. Something could be worked out where enforcement is easier such as a yearly permit fee. Mr. Merlin Reed, 199th Street, the six days a year is not enough. You are only allowed three permits per year. If that’s the case, he is already over his limit. That needs to be Planning Commission Minutes August 13, 2019 Page 3 wiped out. Regarding neighbor permission, what does that mean? Do the people across the street get a say in this also? Staff stated only if it is parked across the street, otherwise, the adjacent neighbors. Mr. Reed asked how that works? Staff did not know. Mr. Reed feels that is not workable. Regarding getting the permit, there are times where they come home late and the hours for the police department are over. He understood you have to give them 24 hours to get the permit. It would be nice to do this electronically as he doesn’t know exactly what day he is coming back. He would rather not see a permit during the summer; the winter is fine. To require a permit during peak recreational months will be a nightmare for everyone. Mr. John Rosenberg, 19955 English Court, besides having a camper and they go camping five times a years so it is there one or two days prior to camping, having three events per year is not enough. He goes fishing twice a week. You ticketed everyone in Farmington and said they need to move their boats off their lawn and get storage. So he stores it on Akin Road. He is on the lake at 6:00 a.m. You cannot get your boat out of there until 6:30 a.m. So he picks up the boat the night before, preps it, hooks it up to his truck and parks it in front of his driveway, so now that can’t happen either. The other problem is, is there a cost to get the permit? Staff did not think so. Mr. Rosenberg asked about the hours of the police department, which are 8:00 am to 4:30 pm. He works during that time, so how is he supposed to get the permit? This is a bad decision and he knows for a fact you don’t hold people accountable to the law already, because I’ve had my camper in the road for four days. He did not know about the three day stipulation. He lives right by the police department and no one has ever stopped by. So what’s wrong with holding people accountable to the law that is in place? Ms. Nicole Boe, 19854 Embers Avenue, it is not just a few people that are upset. It is not just 20 people that found the time to get here. It is important that you realize it affects a lot more than just the 20 people that are here. They were not able to get storage in Farmington and they have an RV stored in Inver Grove Heights. It is not as simple as going five minutes to get it. Their camper needs to be filled with water, charge the battery, etc. They are very respectful of their neighbors and they have no problems. They park in front of their house and pull a little bit onto their grass so they aren’t in the road. They are there for enough time to load and unload as well. For permits, if we went on a trip for seven days, we would be looking at two permits just for one trip; on the front end for overnight to load and a permit on the back end to have it sit overnight when we get home. We got home at 9:00 p.m., unloaded the next day, and put it back in storage. That leaves one permit she can’t do anything with because she can’t get another permit for the return trip. Asking neighbors for permission to park in front of your house; she has a nice camper so why is she asking her neighbors for permission to park a nice vehicle in front when someone can bring an old, beat up truck and park it in front of her house and not ask if she is okay with it. What is aesthetically pleasing to you, maybe is not to me. They have had a camper for 12 years. She has two police officers that live in their neighborhood. They have not gotten a ticket and they weren’t even aware of this. It is clear for someone who doesn’t have storage and is storing in the streets versus someone who is bringing their camper in and letting it sit there for a night or two. It is just the city doing their due diligence. Her husband’s truck is licensed as a commercial vehicle, but he doesn’t use it as a commercial truck. So he can’t park his truck in the street because it is considered a commercial pickup? But the neighbor can park an F150 in the street that looks exactly the same, except for the weight. She doesn’t understand Planning Commission Minutes August 13, 2019 Page 4 enforcing that. She saw on social media, don’t park in the street, park in the driveway. Her driveway is 15 ft long on a steep hill. A camper needs to be level and balanced. She can’t park a camper in a slanted driveway or she would. As far as vandalism in the street, that is a risk they are willing to take for their family convenience. She wanted the commission to realize they are affecting a lot of people by this. Mr. Jake Pingly, 18603 Dylan Drive, agreed with all the comments said. A few bad apples are going to spoil it for everyone and that is unfortunate. If we are having a hard time enforcing the 72 hours, how can we enforce the permits? For the most part we have a clean city. We keep the campers on the street when we need them, we pull them out when we use them. Will this create more of a let’s build a pad at our house and if we can squeeze it in there next to our house, we will do that. If we can’t leave it in storage and bring it overnight, now we need to keep it at our house. It will create more clutter in the neighborhoods. It is cleaner not having that. Mr. Chad Hird, 4832 189th Street W, one thing he likes about Farmington is the leniency in the laws. Empire doesn’t have any stipulations on RV’s, but he wants to keep his kids here. They love to go camping every year. He keeps his camper at Supreme Storage, but like everyone else, he pulls it out a day in advance to load and charge batteries. His driveway is on a steep hill and cannot physically hook up to it, so he keeps it on the street. He has never had any infractions with the city and never gotten any complaints. If this were to change, he might have to make other arrangements, such as a side pad by his garage, which he can’t do because of an easement or maybe just get rid of the camper. RV’s are a very popular thing now. Unless you have a complaint from a neighbor, in which they should be able to work it out, he doesn’t think we should make any changes to the current policy. Ms. Kari Sanders, 5078 185th Street W, they love the hometown atmosphere. There is some confusion about when you can get the permits. They started getting tickets in June with warnings for their camper and their neighbor for their boat. We never had a problem before. They got a permit for the next camping trip. Even though she had a permit, she still got a warning from the police department. For the next camping trip, the neighbor got a permit, Ms. Sanders didn’t. The lady said no, we are all done with that. Her husband took pictures of three other campers around town that got their permits at the same time. She wants consistency and make sure everyone knows. If it is going to change, it should not be because you have a squeaky neighbor. Ms. Becky Moody, 5166 198th Street W, has a nice camper and a large front yard, but she does live on a hill and cannot pull her camper into her driveway. She only uses the camper three or four times and keeps it in storage. They park it within their property lines. Out of six houses, five of us have campers. We all do the same thing with storage and prepping the camper. She received a warning in June, so got a permit. She didn’t know about the 72 hours. She is concerned if in two weeks she will get a ticket. If others are parked on the street, as long as she can get in and out, she is okay with it. Mr. Ed Dombeck, 5157 203rd Ct W, asked if it will be discriminated against RV’s and lawn service companies that pull a 30 ft. trailer? Will there be a difference in the rules to be followed? Staff stated in this instance we are just talking about recreational vehicles. If the commercial vehicle is in violation of the code, then yes the police would deal with Planning Commission Minutes August 13, 2019 Page 5 that. This specifically is only dealing with recreational vehicles. Mr. Dombeck didn’t understand; if it is in violation of this new code, the police will have it moved? Lakeville has explicit rules. The RV and commercial rules for parking on the street should be separated. The RV population has more concern for maintaining where they put their vehicles and concern for their neighbors than the folks that run businesses and getting out and not worrying about where they park. He has had this problem for a couple years where he can’t back out because of this huge truck and trailer in back of his driveway. It’s parked there all day and then late in the afternoon he takes it out to do some work. It is also an inconvenience when a diesel truck comes by, 9:00 at night blowing their stack. There has to be some mechanism to segregate RV’s and boats comparable to other types of vehicles. Staff stated for off-street parking we have a separate commercial vehicle code under 10-6-4. Mr. Andrew Null, 19664 Evergreen Trail, based on what was just said, the current code, says recreational vehicles, campers, RV’s, boats, etc. The code you want to replace it with just says trailer. It doesn’t say recreational vehicles. You said this change was based on a number of complaints the city received. What percentage of the population does it take to generate this change? If he gets enough people to call, voicing opposition, how many does it take? Staff did not have an answer. A resident asked why are we here tonight? Who authored this change? Staff is suggesting it with input from the police department and administration. A resident asked what are the arguments to create this? Staff replied to create a system where we can have better enforcement of on-street parking for recreational vehicles. They were based on public complaints and from staff seeing the number of these vehicles on the street. Ms. Amy Holmes, 18636 Dunbury Avenue, she has been camping for 40 years and has had a camper for ten years. She sometimes parks in the street to pack up. Her problem is the consistency. In the ten years they have never gotten a notice. A couple months ago something must have happened that you are going to enforce these rules. However, one neighbor received a letter, a couple days later they got a pink slip stuck on the camper from the police department. The ordinance was different language than what the pink slip said. What direction are we going? Can we actually try to enforce the 72 hour rule? Ten years and we never got a notice until one week she gets a pink slip and the neighbor gets a letter. She would like to see the 72 hours enforced before you make drastic changes. A resident stated if we are only given three permits for six days, what are the options for those that do have boats and camp and fish and travel a lot. Is there the ability to get additional days or can’t we camp and boat anymore? She would have those permits used up by the end of May. How much is the fine? If it’s minimal, she would rather pay the fine than get the permits. Maybe an option is an annual permit to generate money for the city. You have a recreational vehicle, you put it on your hitch or window, police see the permit and they could still enforce the 72 hours. Six days is clearly not enough. What are our options after that point? How do you let a few complaints suddenly change the whole dynamic of something that has been working? She doesn’t see RV’s and boats cluttering the neighborhoods. Camping and boating is very popular right now. Neighbors are pulling them in and out. If you do enforcement, what are other options? Planning Commission Minutes August 13, 2019 Page 6 Ms. Wendy White, 18467 Echo Drive, the yearly permit for a boat or camper or both is a great idea. You will clear out the offenders that don’t want to pay that and you will fine the ones that abuse the privilege of parking on the street. Chair Rotty stated residents have brought up some great comments and suggestions. Information such as driveway slope, etc. hadn’t been considered. Commission members will now ask their questions. This is a draft ordinance. No action will be taken tonight. We certainly have a lot to think about. Member Windschitl, there was a question as to how police will know the vehicle weight. Police can run the license plate and see what the weight is. He knew the police are currently enforcing it, but is it also code enforcement? Staff stated in the past yes, but the police have been more proactive. Member Windschitl has noticed on social media people are complaining about code enforcement being out there with sprinklers, parking tickets, RV tickets. He wondered if the inconsistency and the message being delivered is inaccurate between the police and code enforcement. Staff stated all of the warnings were from the police. Member Windschitl stated the important thing is consistency with the police and code enforcement. He liked the yearly permit idea. One concern is the safety of parking these RV’s and boats on roads. You do get the big campers parked on narrow streets. If there is an emergency, you get the fire trucks, police, family coming. He has seen extension cords across sidewalks and just the ability to see around the bigger RV’s. Overall we have a good perspective as to what people want. Member Tesky thanked everyone for coming and their comments. Summers are short and we don’t have a lot of time to enjoy our families. For her it is more about safety concerns. When there are big RV’s parked on the streets, you can’t see oncoming cars. Adjacent property owners do park in front of neighbor’s properties. The consent of neighbors is very important. The logistics of six days for a permit is difficult, so the annual permit does make more sense. Member Franceschelli, asked staff to look at section I of the code and asked why does the city have to require something twice. It says “anticipated needs may be required by the city for land banking if required by the city.” Either we are going to require it or not. Chair Rotty stated it can be clarified later and is not part of this discussion. Member Franceschelli stated dealing with the trailer weights, last time he looked at recreational vehicles they were listed by classification; class 1 to class 5. Instead of worrying about weight, why not list it by class. Regarding permitting, forget this three day permit and go to an annual permit. Put it in the fee schedule for a revenue stream. Those that want to abide by the rules and enjoy camping and boating will gladly come forth and do it because they enjoy it and take pride in it. He has yet to see an RV that has been dilapidated, run down or not cared for. These are not cheap entertainment. We talked about work trailers. Those are commercial trailers and shouldn’t be considered in this. He has seen several large fifth wheel assemblies parked in front of properties. They are very considerate about their neighbors. They are not loading and unloading at early hours in the morning. He does not agree with the 2:00 am to 5:00 am hours. He is not going out at 2:00 am to move his trailer just to satisfy the community. It makes no sense. If we can’t get some consistency in enforcement between all parties then you might as well take these efforts and shred them and start over. Planning Commission Minutes August 13, 2019 Page 7 A resident stated safety is 24 hours a day. For us to bring these coaches at 10:00 am, if there is a safety hazard, it is there now. The only way you can address safety is to ban all recreational vehicles in the neighborhoods. Anything parked on the street will be an issue. Chair Rotty stated this is an important topic for our residents. He complimented the residents; you were all very well prepared with your comments. We are not in a hurry. If we are changing an ordinance, we want to do it right the first time. We have heard very good comments that we need to review. If there is to be a permitting process, there needs to be some clarity. Having to have a permit for a day or three days, maybe there is a way to simplify it. A neighbor shouldn’t determine whether you can park something in front of your property. There are some things between staff and the police to look into. He understood the safety issue. Staff should continue working on this with the police chief to modify this draft ordinance based on resident comments. Staff stated if we bring something back, it will be in another draft form. As far as a timeline, it will take as long as it needs to take. A resident asked what are we supposed to do between now and October? Staff stated parking for 72 consecutive hours is on the books now without a permit. Staff can put a notice on the website and through social media when this will be discussed again. 4. Adjourn MOTION by Franceschelli, second by Windschitl to adjourn at 8:15 p.m. APIF, MOTION CARRIED. Respectfully submitted, Cynthia Muller Cynthia Muller Administrative Assistant