HomeMy WebLinkAbout03.22.10 Work Session Minutes
City Council! Parks and Recreation Commission Workshop
March 22, 2010
Mayor Larson called the workshop to order at 7:06 p.m.
City Council Present: Larson, Donnelly, Fogarty, May, Wilson
Parks and Recreation Commission Present: Dave McMillen, Michael Haley, Dawn Johnson,
Karen Neal
Absent: Charlie Weber
Also Present: Peter Herlofsky, City Administrator; Randy Distad, Parks and Recreation
Director; Cynthia Muller, Executive Assistant
MOTION by Wilson, second by Fogarty to approve the agenda. APIF, MOTION CARRIED.
The purpose of the workshop was to discuss doing a Community Survey on parks and recreation
issues and whether or not it should include questions about a general obligation bond referendum
in 2010.
Parks and Recreation Director Distad stated two questions need to be answered:
What is the purpose of the community survey?
Should a community survey be completed in 2010?
Staff presented a draft questionnaire developed by the Parks and Recreation Commission. This
was based on a survey from Apple Valley. Councilmember Wilson asked how will the strategic
plan for park and rec activities be hindered if the community survey does not occur? Will there
be things we will not be able to do without an updated survey? Staff replied it is not hindered.
The comprehensive plan prepared in 2008 identifies priorities and policy we want to accomplish
as part of the 2030 comprehensive plan. Some of the items are bigger ticket items such as
developing Rambling River Park, complete a youth complex in Fairhil~ and address our aging
recreation facilities such as the ice arena, which we are currently addressing. The outdoor pool
still needs to be addressed. It is 40 years old. Councilmember Wilson asked with the Fairhill
development, have we received payment for parkland dedication. Staff stated the 40 acres has
been deeded to the City, so we own the land. The park dedication was all land; there will be no
cash in lieu. The roads will be paid for by the developer. The southern road is 19Sth Street,
which is in. Deerbrooke Path would be the road that would come from 19Sth Street and go north
through the development where the community park is located. The road is constructed when
development occurs.
Councilmember May understood we should let the voters decide, but she also felt that she
represents the residents. She feels strongly that this referendum should go out in 2012, not 2010.
We are talking about spending $14,000 on a survey. She does not think: the referendum will
pass. She was struggling with going to the taxpayers and asking for a tax increase. Regarding
the park in Fairhill, is that the only place this community center could go? Parks and Recreation
Director Distad explained a master plan was done with various parks organizations. Based on
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input received, the consultant developed a plan that includes five baseball fields, and sets aside
land for a community center. In the meantime it will be soccer and LaCrosse fields where the
community center was identified. CounciImember May confirmed the plan is set, it is just a
matter of when the fmancing will start. Staff explained this area gives us the space we need.
This complex would not frt in a neighborhood park. It covers 42 acres.
CounciImember May asked how much a referendum costs. City Administrator Herlofsky
explained it is part ofthe general election. Councilmember May asked the Parks and Recreation
Commission members how the economic climate enters into the discussion. Member McMillen
explained the purpose of the survey is to fmd out what the residents want to do. If the residents
do not support a referendum, then so be it. They had a chance to speak. We need to fmd that
out. Parks and Recreation is an important factor to keeping people in Farmington and we need to
keep the facilities up to date and in good repair. Member Haley stated he studied other cities that
have done the survey versus those that did not and the ones that did not do a survey, the
referendum failed. All of those that did a survey, the referendum passed. Councilmember May
stated ifwe do a referendum she wants it to pass. She had strong feelings about the economic
climate right now. Ifwe could spend concerted efforts over the next couple years getting more
in touch with the sports association and get them on board before a survey would go out, and
maybe that is already being done.
City Administrator Herlofsky asked if the surveys from other cities asked about a referendum or
did it ask people what their wants and needs are so the referendum question was clearly defmed
to meet the needs of the community. One advantage offmding out what a community wants and
needs and then determining what the development would be, you would have a better chance of
succeeding if you knew what they want.
Member Neal stated the survey in 2005 received many more responses than expected with very
favorable comments. Things have changed since 2005, so that is why we want to ask again.
Apple Valley broke down questions as to the amount residents are willing to pay for a new pool,
etc. The survey could also be a checklist for the Parks and Recreation Department to determine
if they are providing the recreation we need. She wants to give the residents an opportunity to
say yes or no. Councilmember May asked what does $3/month more in taxes get me?
CounciImember Wilson stated it might get you what you answered in a previous question. In the
last survey they asked how much are you willing to pay and what do you want for the money?
Member McMillen stated we would prioritize what $3 will get us and put that on a referendum.
CounciImember Fogarty noted the next question states residents would be asked to approve
$12.5 million. Her concern with that is that it sounds like we are doing the survey after we have
already decided what we will do. She wants to know from the residents.
Parks and Recreation Director Distad noted we are not working with Decision Resources, who
did the Apple Valley survey. The company we have will have their own questions they will use
as a template.
CounciImember Fogarty stated because of the zip code issue, the survey will include people not
living in Farmington. The first few questions deal with living outside the City boundaries. She
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represents the City of Farmington, and wants to hear from the residents who will pay this tax, not
those outside the City boundaries. Staff stated the frrst three questions are trying to determine
where the resident is. Because of geo-coding they can tell where it is. To not send the survey to
outside people we would have to cross check every address.
Councilmember Donnelly stated we want to fmd out what they are happy with and what their
priorities are. The $12.5 million will not be put on the survey. Councilmember Fogarty wanted
staff to make the company send this to only residents within the City proper. Councilmember
Donnelly stated the economic climate may be worse in two years. We are trying to get a sense
from this survey and we would at least be able to prioritize for the future. He sees it as an
investment and was okay with doing the survey. There are nice complexes in neighboring cities
and it is a big plus for them. Their residents said yes. We are lacking that. It brings a lot of
people to town.
Mayor Larson wanted to make sure the Commission is 100% prepared to bring a referendum this
year; all the homework is done, they know everything they need to know for this referendum to
pass. If it fails, it is done for years. Councilmember Fogarty understood the Commission has
talked to every athletic association and they are supportive of the referendum as well. Mayor
Larson liked question 26 asking how much are you willing to spend. Member Johnson stated
even ifwe don't go forward with the referendum, she felt they need to come back as a group to
figure out how they will handle the shortfall with all the items identified in the 2030
comprehensive plan.
Councilmember Fogarty noted Councilmember Wilson wanted this workshop to discuss if the
survey comes back positive, is there Council support for a referendum this fall. If there isn't
Council support for a referendum, then this is a waste. Member Neal agreed, especially if we are
going to go through this survey and Council says no, when the taxpayers are saying yes.
Councilmember Wilson stated when the survey was done a couple years ago; Council missed an
opportunity to do a referendum at that time. The economy is cyclical and this is not a good time.
He has an uncomfortable feeling presenting this to the voters. He noted City Administrator
Herlofsky made an observation that the opinion of a resident with regard to a referendum is a
shorter time period than what the opinion of some of the other questions might be on the survey.
Parks and Recreation Director Distad stated the consultant has said that a needs assessment
without referendum questions would have a two year shelf life. For a referendum it is one year.
Councilmember Wilson stated personally he would vote for a referendum and spend $14,000 to
do the survey, but when we did the survey last time we should have gone out for a referendum.
As far as the complex at 160th Street and Pilot Knob Road, the residents of Apple Valley are
paying for that. He worried about the long term negativity of putting a referendum out there that
does not pass. He wanted to make sure everything is in order before putting it out there. The
2030 comprehensive plan does not plan for a recession; it doesn't forecast bankruptcies and
housing shortfalls, etc. Ifwe spend the $14,000 then in 2012 when the economy is better, people
might agree with having recreational facilities. He was concerned if we put the referendum out
there and we have a no vote, you will pay a longer term price than waiting for a better time to do
it.
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Councilmember Donnelly stated if the survey says no to the referendum, then we will not put the
referendum out there. Councilmember Wilson stated we are spending $14,000 more that could
have been spent on improving something. He agreed with doing the survey prior to a
referendum, but the timing is not right. Member Johnson asked ifwe didn't do a referendum,
what would be our option to manage the shortfall. Councilmember Wilson stated ifwe have a
referendum and it fails what would we do then?
Councilmember May stated Council and residents need to get on board with getting out of this
bond frenzy where we bond for everything. We have to start setting money aside for
maintenance things. That is more the direction we have to lean towards; levies to plan repairs
not only for streets, but also for parks. As much as she would like all the bells and whistles, we
need to be proud of what we have and take care of what we have in this economic climate. As
much as people don't know what it will look like in 2012, she knows what it looks like today.
She receives calls from residents and has to make her decisions based on what she knows. She
sees it everyday in her work and is hearing it from the residents that call her. She wants to
protect $14,000 as much as $7,500 for soil borings. We need to make good hard decisions with
every penny we have because 2011 will be a bear of a budget. She gets livid when people
compare us to other communities, because we can't. Farmington is a victim of timing. The bulk
of our growth came at the height of the market with $500,000 homes. We got cut offat the
knees. Ifwe had a few more rooftops, things would be different. We have to be proud of what
we have and take care of what we have. The Downtown Business Association is a great example
of trying to make use of what we have and work together to create enthusiasm. Member Neal
stated even though it is not fair to compare us to other cities, we do get compared. What the
difference is when growth happens, they will go to Apple Valley who has the baseball complex,
and a new water park. Why can't we give them something? Councilmember May stated we
have a smaller pool of people to pay for it. If the pocket book is empty, the pocket book is
empty. She did not understand why we think we can take another dollar over and over. It is not
there.
Councilmember Fogarty stated we are not talking about doing G.O. bonding without a vote. We
are talking about giving residents an opportunity to vote. She was here when we had the most
number of homes ever in Farmington and had a Council tell her now is not the time. She has
heard now is not the time for eight years. It has gotten worse and not better. It is never going to
be the right time. If2004 was not the right time, she doesn't know when it was. She noted it
was interesting to hear Councilmember Wilson say we missed an opportunity, because he was
one of the people that did not support going to a referendum. It was she and Mayor Soderberg
that wanted to give it to the voters. She was also frustrated. In 2005 we heard clearly from the
voters that they did want something and Council decided not to do anything. She lives in the
world of athletics and indoor and outdoor sports. She hears everyday we need more for our
youth and I am willing to pay for it. A survey will give us a better look at the community as a
whole. She wants to send the survey out. If the residents are interested in a referendum, it will
have her support. .
Councilmember Donnelly stated this gives us a way to find out. The $14,000 is not going to give
anyone a tax break if we do not do the survey. Staff stated the money comes from the park
improvement fund which is comprised of development dollars. Councilmember Donnelly stated
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this body needs to decide if it is a good use of the money. The Commission thinks it is a good
use of the money. If the survey says there is no interest, then that is easy. It is tough times, but
people still buy homes, cars, groceries, etc. All we are asking is for the residents to tell us what
they think. If they want a referendum, he would be supportive of that because that is what they
want.
Councilmember Fogarty noted the maintenance of items we have still needs to be done. That is a
separate issue. Councilmember Wilson stated ifwe go out for a referendum and it is shot down
60/40, then we are stuck. We have not solved the problem. You cannot have a no vote and
come back shortly after and expect different results. Councilmember Fogarty was not asking for
different results; she was asking for the residents to decide for themselves. We still have to come
up with a long term plan for maintenance regardless of passage. Even if the referendum passes,
it will not solve the issue of maintenance. Councilmember Wilson understood we cannot solve
the kind ofproblems we are talking about without a referendum. You will have to have voter
approval to build the youth ball fields, additional land, etc. If you pick the wrong time to put it
out there and they vote no and we still have the needs out there, we cannot increase fees
$lOO/month. Councilmember Fogarty stated then we don't meet those needs. Member
McMillen stated then we keep things looking nice.
Mayor Larson noted now would be a good time to go for a referendum because building is
cheap.
Parks and Recreation Director Distad stated ifwe do a referendum there will be a lag time for
design and construction. If a referendum is approved in 2010, 2011 would be dedicated to
design with construction starting in the fall of2011; 2012 would be continued construction,
growing grass, etc. with facilities ready to be used in 2013. The other part is when you build
these facilities, there is an additional cost to maintain them and that would be increased taxes to
cover those increased costs. We have not only the cost to build the facilities, but also operating
and maintenance. Councilmember Fogarty stated we have to come up with a long term revenue
source to take care of what we have.
Mayor Larson would like to see what the residents have to say on the survey. Councilmember
Fogarty had some comments on questions she would like changed. Ifwe want this for a fall
referendum, we should approve this at the next Council meeting. She would like to see a draft
and send comments to the City Administrator and the Parks and Recreation Commission Chair
so it comes to Council in a form they can approve at the AprilS, 2010, meeting. Parks and
Recreation Director Distad noted the company will have a template of questions used in other
communities that talk about a referendum. We need to have the agreement in place first, and
then they will provide the template of questions and we can choose which questions we want.
The comments are sent back to the company and they will revise the draft and send it back for
approval. Staffhas allowed a month to review the questions before it is sent out. Ifwe approve
hiring the firm at the April 5, meeting we would have a month to get the survey questions done
and approved. The survey results would be presented at the fIrst meeting in July.
Councilmember Wilson asked that residents prioritize their needs in the survey. Staff stated the
proposal is for 22-28 questions. The survey is mailed out to a random sample of residents and if
a response is not received, then they call. Councilmember Wilson asked ifwe could save
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$10,000 and do it in-house. It may not be perfect, but couldn't we get some insight and save
$10,000. The Parks budget is less than $150,000 and there are things he would like to do. Parks
and Recreation Director Distad stated we would run the risk of not having a statistically valid
survey of their wants and needs. We do not have the staff to send out all the surveys and tabulate
them. The survey will provide good direction for the Commission and the Parks and Recreation
Department as to where to use the money.
The City Attorney has stated the written notice of a referendum has to be provided to the County
Auditor 53 days prior to the election. The notice has to include the date of the election, the
office to be voted on and the title language ofthe question to be voted on. We would have to
have a decision no later than September 10, 2010. With an August Primary we need to submit a
notice of election by August 27, 2010. The City Attorney suggests Council give clear direction
by mid-August. City Administrator Herlofsky stated any preparation needs to be backed off that
August date. Councilmember Fogarty felt August 2,2010, should be the goal date. Staffwill
bring back the agreement to do the survey. From there staffwill work on a draft survey for the
Parks and Recreation Commission and Council to review. The survey questions would be
approved at the ftrst meeting in May so the survey can be sent out before school is out.
MOTION by Fogarty, second by Wilson to adjourn at 8:18 p.m. APIF, MOTION CARRIED.
Respectfully submitted,
,/I ~~P/~
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Cynthia Muller
Executive Assistant
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